(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

dottiness
2011-02-02 01:16 am UTC (link)

I have been following this and I'm getting so tired of people flinging "misandry" around like it's something that actually exists in quantifiable numbers. Yes, every person who dislikes this comic is a "misandrist" who is "censoring" Penny Arcade and not someone who just called the comic out on being privileged and ignorant.

I'm glad the guys finally took the shirt down but

a) It never should have been make
b) Their "we're still the victims here" stance is really annoying
c) Why the hell won't they even try to rein in their fanbase? They're running rampant, calling everyone who disagrees misandrists and whiners and "against free speech," telling rape survivors horrible things and calling them awful names, and the most we've seen is Gabe saying "I think it's going to be uncomfortable to be a guy at PAX." No it won't be, but I almost wish it was. Then at least they might realize they had fucked up, instead of this "small ~emotional~ vocal minority" approach.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	dottiness 2011-02-02 01:17 am UTC (link)
	*never should have been made. Apparently I'm so bothered by this that I'm typoing. Whoops guess I'm just too EMOTIONAL, Penny Arcade. It's like they read Derailing for Dummies and took it as a literal guide. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dottiness 2011-02-02 01:24 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I also recommend reading Courtney Stanton's post on the subject: Why I'm Not Speaking At PAX East 2011. Don't look at the comments though. Trust me. Just don't. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

caitiedid
2011-02-02 01:30 am UTC (link)

Oh yeah, that post is one of the (many, many, many) links in the write-up I linked to. I really appreciate how well and how calmly she laid out her opinion in that piece, especially given that, according to the linked write-up, some obnoxious PA fans accused her of lying about being a rape survivor.

I agree that the way this thing has been handled is atrocious. I actually was kind of glad when I saw the blog post about removing the shirt - I mean, Mike still wasn't apologizing for the joke or how the aftermath was handled, but at least it was something - but in the days following I got a headache that just kept growing and growing as I watched Mike and the fans flail around about being victimized. Ugh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

dottiness
2011-02-02 01:41 am UTC (link)

I know, I heard the shirt was getting removed and my reaction was pretty much "about god damned time," but then everything just started blowing up all over again. I'm glad there are so many people calling PA out on this, but it just reminds me of the Kate Beaton stuff where people mansplain it all away as "stupid girls getting emotional over stuff, let us explain to you why it wasn't offensive."

I mean that comic someone made about the Kate Beaton thing could be remade, right this instant, with rape jokes as the subject and you wouldn't even have to change practically anything except the words used.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tiasian 2011-02-05 06:23 pm UTC (link)
	... what Kate Beaton stuff? D: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

dottiness
2011-02-06 12:57 am UTC (link)

Um, I can't find any lings, but in summary! Some dudes made vaguely creepy compliments to Kate Beaton
(like "You're sexy and I would like to marry you, we would have sexy genius children together"), she ranted about how such compliments were disingenuous on Twitter, and immediately all the privileged dudebro guys on the entire internet turned out in force to tell her about how she had no reason to be offended. Shit like "you're taking it too seriously" and "if I ever got a compliment like that, I'd be flattered." You know, the stuff they routinely say about women who complain about getting catcalled.

This comic is the one that got made about it and it's a pretty fair summary.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	dottiness 2011-02-06 12:59 am UTC (link)
	(Oh! I forgot to mention there was one guy in particular who reveled in people calling him out, telling him to stop mansplaining, etc. Much like the way Mike has been reveling in comments like "how does it feel to perpetuate rape culture." I think he even made the "well girls like me so I can't be a sexist" remark the same way.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tehrin 2011-02-02 07:17 am UTC (link)
	Why do I always look at the comments every time someone tells me not to look at the comments? (Reply to this)(Parent)

fools_game
2011-02-02 12:06 pm UTC (link)

Oh, but there's one thread in the comments where a guy tries some mansplaining, and he gets smacked down epically, and get this: he apologises - properly apologises! - and, oh hell, I'll just c+p his response:

I’m not intending this to pass moderation, I just wanted to say sorry.

My apologies – you are completely correct and I need to educate myself more about this. It’s easy for me to become detached from this and think of it as “a problem that needs to be fixed” instead of something that has happened and still happens to actual people.

My words were careless, and clearly, I have some misconceptions that need to be challenged. I honestly was not trying to upset anyone, but the fact that I have bothers me, and if there was a way to rectify it, I would.

Ladies and gentlemen, the correct response.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cyndra_falin 2011-02-02 11:18 pm UTC (link)
	applauds (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sandglass 2011-02-02 03:17 am UTC (link)
	Did you see that right after Gabe explained why they took the shirt down, he said he'd wear it to PAX anyway? Clearly he doesn't really care about people being comfortable at PAX. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dottiness 2011-02-02 03:24 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, I did, and I pulled a pretty nasty face. Gestures are meaningless if there's no feeling behind them, ugh. Didn't he also encourage other people to wear theirs? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	eleutheria 2011-02-02 03:56 am UTC (link)
	As I understand it, they took the shirt down only because the game industry asked them to after getting thousands and thousands of letters of complaint. (And then Gabe tweeted that he's wearing the shirt anyway.) I have lots of feelings about this whole thing, but that in particular made me want to slap him. (Reply to this)(Parent)

alexa
2011-02-02 05:52 am UTC (link)

I am glad the shirt was taken down, but honestly, the post explaining this decision (bottom of the page) was so condescending and insensitive that, for me, it really soured any possibly sense of victory.

Mike/"Gabe" made it very clear that he felt he had "caved into to [sic] pressure from a vocal minority" (translation: man, all these whiny bitches!), that he would "never apologize for the joke"--which he maintains is "funny"--and strongly implied that he doesn't believe any negative reaction to the joke is warranted. He then scoffs at the people who have said they do not wish to attend PAX because they think he and Jerry/"Tycho" are promoting "some sort of rape culture" (translation: I don't belive in rape culture, or at least, I don't want to take the time to think about it), since he insists this simply "isn't true" (despite numerous actions to the contrary), and tells these people that they just shouldn't come to PAX at all.

But hey, he's not a complete monster: he'll give you a refund!

And finally, even though this post's thesis was that they'd rather just remove the shirt if it would make people uncomfortable at PAX (even though they thought this was an unwarranted reaction), Mike has said that he will wear the shirt to PAX himself. And his tweets to people attempting to engage him on the topic have been flippant and dismissive to the point of cruelty. I don't think Mike could possibly make it and clearer that he doesn't give a single shit about the feelings of rape survivors, or any fan who doesn't condone glib, damaging attitudes toward rape.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

dottiness
2011-02-02 06:11 am UTC (link)

Mostly what's soured me on it is Mike's attitude, yeah. I heard about the shirt being taken down secondhand since I haven't been following PA since the "stop getting offended" shit, so I didn't hear about the condescending post until everything started exploding. Even the post by itself (if they had omitted the "stupid vocal minority" shit) would have just been worth an eyeroll, but the way he continues to act like an absolute asshole on twitter has really left me seeing red. Not to mention his defenses -- "my wife liked it so it can't be offensive," "you're just being irrational," "the internet shouldn't censor itself for you," and my personal absolute favorite, "if you don't like it then don't read it."

That post, now that I've read the whole thing, is really, really gross. Ugh. I don't know why not being an asshole is so hard.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	alexa 2011-02-02 06:44 am UTC (link)
	I don't know why not being an asshole is so hard. Probably because, in this case, it would involve admitting that they were wrong. Making past efforts to promote PAX as an inclusive, welcoming event and developing a successful charity doesn't earn you an irrevocable "Good Guy For Life" card. I'm not sure either of them understands that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ekaterinv 2011-02-02 07:38 am UTC (link)
	I bet they'd get along splendidly with Keith Olbermann and Michael Moore. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sistercoyote 2011-02-02 11:19 pm UTC (link)
	I wonder if Milholland is still selling "Asshole is not an alternative lifestyle" shirts. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	full_metal_ox 2011-02-05 02:18 am UTC (link)
	A possible kindred slogan, paraphrasing Wheaton's Law: "Don't be a dickwolf." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	emily_goddess 2011-02-02 06:51 pm UTC (link)
	he'll give you a refund! And ~~ban you from PAX~~ make sure you don't decide to attend again "in a moment of weakness"! (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Read comments) -