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exstarsis
2011-02-02 07:08 am UTC (link)

I always interpreted the original comic as them coming up with the worst monster they could imagine. The worst possible fate a game could inflict on an NPC that a player could ignore-- since, well, that was what the comic was mocking. In that context, dickwolves does not particularly bother me. No more than Fruit Fucker, anyhow.

That said, Team Dickwolves as shirts makes very little sense, except as kneejerk defensiveness, or as a really, really poorly thought out attempt to defend free speech. I know they make their living being assholes, but I'm glad they stopped selling the shirts.

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caitiedid
2011-02-02 07:21 am UTC (link)

I know what you mean. The original comic didn't really bother me all that much - I didn't think it was funny at all and I definitely rolled my eyes, but I sort of just forgot about it. (I'm sure I would have had a much different reaction if I were a rape survivor or was close to one, though.) The thing that is really disgusting to me and the main problem, I think, is the fallout. Not just the T-shirt, but the reaction Mike and some of the more rabid, misogynistic fans have had to the critics, and Mike's unwillingness to apologize or even stop to see why he should apologize.

(I keep saying Mike, Mike, Mike - there are two guys who make Penny Arcade, but Jerry hasn't been very involved with this whole thing, as far as I've seen. I don't really know if that's a good thing or not.)

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	ekaterinv 2011-02-02 07:27 am UTC (link)
	I've always thought Jerry was by far the smarter one. Whether that means he's crafting a well thought out apology and trying to figure out how to tell Mike he's being a colossal jackass, or whether it just means he'll use bigger words to insult rape survivors, I have no idea. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	blue_penguin 2011-02-02 12:46 pm UTC (link)
	I seem to remember some past unfunny PA wank where Mike made a complete ass of himself while Jerry eventually stepped in to say "okay, you know what, this isn't cool at all" to him, but the time for him to do that in this case is long past, I think. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	youngcurmudgeon 2011-02-02 07:06 pm UTC (link)
	I think I remember that a few years ago they did a thing about pick-up artists, and Mike was like "IDK, guys, I think this is sort of a cool thing" and then Jerry was like "except for the MASSIVE MISOGYNY." Don't have a link, though. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	caitiedid 2011-02-02 08:56 pm UTC (link)
	I remember that too, but damned if I can recall when it was or find the posts. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lady7jane 2011-02-03 02:01 am UTC (link)
	Here it is. Exactly one year before the Dickwolves comic. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	caitiedid 2011-02-03 02:06 am UTC (link)
	Thank you! Added to the post. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cmdr_zoom 2011-02-03 06:14 pm UTC (link)
	now that's, uh, timing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

sandglass
2011-02-02 08:49 am UTC (link)

I've heard some people have gotten e-mails from Jerry agreeing with Mike. Jerry is typically quieter, which is why we've heard less, but he's done nothing to show his lack of involvement behind the scenes, nor to disagree.

Also, introducing the second comic ("Go and rape no more, rapers"):
Reaction to Wednesday's comic fell, conveniently for my purpose, into two camps: those who found a phrase like "raped by dickwolves" a stunning return to form, and those who felt that we were somehow advocating the actual rape of human beings. It sounds as though we've already satisfied the first camp, but an effort should certainly be made to assuage the latter.

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	alexa 2011-02-02 01:17 pm UTC (link)
	Also, according to the debacle tumblr, Jerry was the one who announced they would be selling the "Team Dickwolves" shirts. I haven't seen Jerry make any responses that exhibit the same stunningly dismissive (and personally hurtful) attitudes as Mike... so that's something. But like ekaterinv said, if there was ever a time to step in, it was probably a few days ago. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sandglass 2011-02-02 08:45 am UTC (link)
	I'd agree--while I think it's insensitive and triggering, it's not necessarily so bad, HOWEVER they completely lost the benefit of the doubt engaging in rape apologism, the tone argument, victim blaming, mansplaining, mocking survivors, making false comparisons, and doing every other douchey thing in the rape culture book. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	queencallipygos 2011-02-02 11:15 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, that's how I'd read the initial comment -- that it was a comment on morality of gaming characters deciding "yeah, my quest is over so screw anyone else I meet no matter how much trouble they're in". Sounds like the way they're handling this, though, is a separate problem. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

alexa
2011-02-02 06:00 pm UTC (link)

That was my interpretation of the original strip as well. It wasn't exactly sensitive, but it didn't strike me as making fun of rape in particular. That said, just because I didn't feel initially horrified by it doesn't mean that the reactions of people who felt triggered or offended were unwarranted.

If they'd addressed objectors with a simple and genuine apology--something along the lines of "we never wanted to trivialize rape, we are sorry"--I'd probably have been okay with that.

The treatment of the issue since then, though, has honestly felt like an aggressive and deliberate "FUCK YOU" to anyone who dared question their work, or suggest that making light of rape (in your jokes, or in the way you respond to people with concerns) helps perpetuate rape culture. Just laugh, or shut up! Any other response is not welcome.

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littleshebear
2011-02-02 07:43 pm UTC (link)

If they'd addressed objectors with a simple and genuine apology--something along the lines of "we never wanted to trivialize rape, we are sorry"--I'd probably have been okay with that.

Same here. I find the core joke of the comic quite funny, video game logic is absurd and they don't need the rape line to make it funny. If they'd just apologised this never would have escalated the way it has. The whole thing smacks of butthurt incredulity at the idea of people criticising them. It's like they think they're above reproach.

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	cmdr_zoom 2011-02-03 01:33 am UTC (link)
	"That's obviously not how we meant it, how could you think that, are you fucking stupid??" (Reply to this)(Parent)

lissibith
2011-02-03 03:50 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, this. I don't read PA that often, but this was one of the ones I skimmed through on my latest attempt. And yeah, it made me cringe, not only because the rape thing is totally unfunny but because the joke itself has gotten tired and old. (unless you don't MMO I suppose). It was a screw-up, but hey, everyone screws up. An apology - or even just not saying *anything* about it and letting all the comments from readers stand on their own merits - would probably have us all thinking about something else by now.

But they have to be *right* dammit. And when people who are patently wrong MUST be right, it makes something like this mess.

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