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ruslan ([info]ruslan) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2010-09-26 05:05:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
A Turkish woman takes umbrage at the misrepresentation of Turkey in Christopher Pike's novel The Secret of Ka. She posts a review on Amazon (and another one on LJ at bookfails) talking about her complaints with the book.

Then, a man claiming to be one of Christopher Pike's editors shows up to westsplain her own culture to her. Also he decides that she's been threatening to cut off the author's hands.

Arguments include:

1) It's okay for a major character to have an Indian name! He started off being Ahmed but readers liked this other name better. Also, Amesh sounds a lot like Ahmed. Same difference! Although it turns out Ahmed isn't even a Turkish name and Turkish people will spell it Ahmet.
2) Turkish, Kurdish, Arab ... it's all a matter of perspective! Who's to say whether a Turkish person is Arab or not? (Not you because I know more about your own ethnic background than you do.)
3) But all those people he wrote about who dress strangely and have foreign names and address their grandfathers by unusual titles are supposed to be weird! We didn't misrepresent Turkish culture at all! It's just that all of those characters are supposed to be iconoclasts or hipsters or something. Yeah.
4) I totally saw a guy wearing a turban in Turkey once! Also, taxi drivers in London and New York wear turbans. (???)
5) All cultures even tangentially related to Islam and the Middle East are segregated, war-torn, and insanely conservative. It's illegal to swear and nobody sits near women and bloody wars are waged outside of the Hilton every night. :(
6) I'm just never going to address the fact that you're offended and feel that your culture was used like a dirty rag at all!
7) u mad :(

Ah, I remember well the Turkish capital, Istanbul, that desert city.

I nicked this from a mouse at wank_report (thank you mousey!)

ETA: A clever person on Amazon dug up proof that the "editor" Michael Brite is actually a sockpuppet of Christopher Pike himself. He seems to mostly use the account to leave worshipful reviews of his own books. Seriously:

Perhaps The Best Book I Have Ever Read
Christopher Pike's "Thirst" is a masterpiece. The book is not only a fantastic thriller, a mind boggling mystery, but a spiritual revelation. Alisa is a five thousand year old vampire who kills as casually as she makes love. Yet there remains deep within her a painful and yet abiding memory and love for a man she met when she was young, a man who may have been more than a man -- the mysterious Lord Krishna from the Bhagavad Gita, the equivalent of the Indian Bible. However, please do not get the idea this book is about religion. Pike's novel is totally free of dogma. He never says Krishna is God, and his heroine is never sure who Krishna truly is. Also, he is careful not to offend anyone's faith. But there is a heart breaking passage where two of the main characters debate the existence of God. They soon come to the conclusion that "God" is impossible to define or know, but whatever Krishna was, he was too powerful, and too beautiful, to disobey. And that leads to the crux of the story. The master vampire who has created Alisa must destroy all the vampires to gain salvation. Yet, ironically, Krishna has promised Alisa she will have his protection if she obeys him and never creates another vampire. It is the clash of these two contradictory vows that stands at the heart of this brilliant novel. Reading it, I felt I was given an insight into the mystery of life itself. Why, for every good impulse in the world, is there an opposing evil? Yet Pike tells this incredible morality play without preaching. In fact, I suspect most people who read the book will simply enjoy it because it is a kick-ass novel about the most intense character in all of modern fiction. I am trying to say "Thirst" is so much more than a vampire book. It is ultimately a timeless fable of how fear can change to hatred, and then to love, and finally mature into devotion. Pike has managed a small miracle by showing us that these emotion are not truly at odds with each other. For they all reside in every human heart, in the same way, perhaps, the divine does as well. I cannot recommend this book highly enough. It changed my life forever.

ETA again: Christopher Pike has now made an impressively paranoid post on a website of his accusing the original Amazon reviewer (caligirl_08) of posting negative reviews under multiple aliases, as well as claiming that [info]bookfails is a "livejournal community sponsored by someone of Turkish background who has taken things much too far and is trying to rob fiction authors of their artistic license".

Dear Author has also caught wind of this (last item on the page).

But wait, there's more!

caligirl_08 ([info]bs_08 on [info]bookfails) tackles Pike's aforementioned sexy vampire novel, Thirst. It ... well, I'm just going to leave this here:


Initial post: Nov. 7, 2009 3:08 AM PST
Michael Brite says:
It says clearly in the book that Sita was an Aryan, a well known group who invaded India five thousand years ago. They were all blond and blue-eyed.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]hadisia
2010-09-26 08:22 pm UTC (link)
Totally got this guy mixed up with Christopher Moore for a while, aka author of Lamb. I was so ready to rant about his terrible strawwomen!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]emily_goddess
2010-09-26 08:45 pm UTC (link)
Does he have issues with women characters? I've only read one of his books, and the one woman character in it was not great, but half my friends are demanding I read Lamb</i>, so I was going to do that soon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]hadisia
2010-09-26 09:05 pm UTC (link)
Lamb itself isn't that bad to women (that I remember, anyways, I haven't read it in years). But his other books have characters like the ex-wife who "turned gay" because of an unfortunate encounter with a whale penis, and her SUPER BITCH LOVER who is basically the mean lesbian stereotype straight guys envision. Another book had a woman who was a misguided pagan witch (if I'm remembering right), but she's only that way because of her TERRIBLE TERRIBLE LIFE where men treated her badly.

Also, his other books, in my opinion, have some interesting ideas, but he executes them in a mediocre fashion. I could barely get through two of his other books, they were just boring and kind of cliched.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]emily_goddess
2010-09-26 09:10 pm UTC (link)
Another book had a woman who was a misguided pagan witch (if I'm remembering right), but she's only that way because of her TERRIBLE TERRIBLE LIFE where men treated her badly.

Coyote Blue? Yeah, that's the one I read.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]hadisia
2010-09-26 09:14 pm UTC (link)
That might be it. It was so boring and annoying that I forgot the title and most of the premise - I mostly remember going "...wat". I know the other one was Fluke.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sandglass
2010-09-26 09:30 pm UTC (link)
Whale penis? What the hell?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]hadisia
2010-09-26 09:41 pm UTC (link)
Lemme see if I remember this right...the main character and his (now ex-)wife used to work with whales doing...sonar or something, I dunno. His wife was on some whale expedition, a horny whale humped her boat and spooged on it (and everyone on the boat) and that's why she's a lesbian, because she got just TOO MUCH PENIS. It'd be funny if he didn't constantly write cardboard cutout women characters and have the context of "well she's a witch/a lesbian/whatever because of BAD EXPERIENCE WITH MEN!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sandglass
2010-09-26 09:43 pm UTC (link)
Wooooooow.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]atreyu
2010-09-26 10:11 pm UTC (link)
The fuck.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chikane
2010-09-26 10:12 pm UTC (link)
...

Yeeeeeah. Can't have anything to do with liking women or anything. Must be penis exposure.

That's not a gross stereotype or anything, no Mr. Moore.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]littleshebear
2010-09-26 11:42 pm UTC (link)
Wow. First "Gay from tent peg," now we have "lesbian from whale penis."

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]tehrin
2010-09-27 12:02 am UTC (link)
Whale semen makes you gay. All straight men in that boat are now gay by proxy.

How would a whale actually hump a boat? Was it a dolphin? That's the only way it seems remotely possible.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]anonyrat
2010-09-27 01:17 am UTC (link)
Whale semen makes you gay. All straight men in that boat are now gay by proxy.

This is what Moby Dick has lead me to believe.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tehrin
2010-09-27 01:33 am UTC (link)
It gets so lonely at sea...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bienegold
2010-09-27 09:15 am UTC (link)
Best possible comment.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-09-28 01:59 am UTC

[info]innocentsmith
2010-09-28 08:53 am UTC (link)
Amazing comment is amazing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]beejium
2010-09-28 03:45 am UTC (link)
Actually, some whales* have prehensile penises and pretty much just get into a giant group with a female(s) and just... go at it. Rolling over and thrusting in a haphazard sort of way. It'd be real easy to get into the middle of such a whale orgy, but I would hope that any marine biologist would know better than to do so. :/

That part of Fluke always sort of pissed me off, which is a shame because I quite like Christopher Moore. (Lamb is pretty much my most favourite book.)


*We were shown a horrifying video of it in our marine mammalogy course, but I can't for the life of me remember what type of whale it was, or find the video

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2010-09-29 04:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2010-09-29 11:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2010-10-04 06:49 pm UTC

[info]sequinedlizard
2010-10-01 09:33 pm UTC (link)
He tends to run on the "women are frequently smarter than men" trope, but more in a sitcom way. A lot of the women in his novels are right, but that's not obvious, and the main men in his books do tend to fall into the socially-inept dork but really nice guy category.

There are a lot of manipulative women characters, a lot of devious women characters, and a lot of women characters who seem to lose their common sense when the main guy of the book is around and sacrifice themselves to men's interests. I still have a soft spot for some of them, though.

I like a lot of things about Moore's work, but his portrayal of women is pretty commonplace, problematic, and could be a lot better.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]blue_penguin
2010-09-27 11:03 am UTC (link)
Oh good, I feel better now. I've been reading A Dirty Job and while the female characters aren't bad, there's something about the general attitude towards women that sets my teeth on edge (I think it has to do with all the tongue-in-cheek "beta male" stuff). I was wondering if I was imagining things, but if his other books are worse in that department, I guess I'm not.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]hadisia
2010-09-27 11:08 am UTC (link)
Yeah. It's like...he doesn't HATE women and I'm pretty sure he doesn't think we're INFERIOR BEINGS OR ANYTHING but he writes them like all of his writing knowledge comes from watching 80s sitcom reruns.

Also, from what I can tell, almost all of his books are from the perspective of the POOR, IGNORED EVERYMAN aka all of Seth Rogen's characters ever. So...yeah.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]blue_penguin
2010-09-27 11:13 am UTC (link)
Yeah, that's the problem I have with it -- the general air of Nice Guy-ism. It could be a lot worse, sure, but it still makes me go :/ a lot.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]hadisia
2010-09-27 11:15 am UTC (link)
It was especially disappointing after I'd read and enjoyed Lamb, because I was expecting more awesome stuff (although that book may be problematic, too, but I haven't read it in years and now I'm iffy on rereading it).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]blue_penguin
2010-09-27 11:20 am UTC (link)
I also read Lamb back in high school and thought it was great, which is why I picked up this book when I saw it, but... yeah. Very disappointing. And from what's been said in this thread I'm getting the impression that A Dirty Job is one of the better ones, so that definitely doesn't encourage me to read the rest of his oeuvre.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]wallflower
2010-09-29 06:26 am UTC (link)
Have you gotten to the part where certain women are referred to as "fuckpuppets"?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]blue_penguin
2010-09-29 08:05 am UTC (link)
... uh. No, I'm pretty sure I'd remember if I had.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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