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ruslan ([info]ruslan) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2010-09-26 05:05:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
A Turkish woman takes umbrage at the misrepresentation of Turkey in Christopher Pike's novel The Secret of Ka. She posts a review on Amazon (and another one on LJ at bookfails) talking about her complaints with the book.

Then, a man claiming to be one of Christopher Pike's editors shows up to westsplain her own culture to her. Also he decides that she's been threatening to cut off the author's hands.

Arguments include:

1) It's okay for a major character to have an Indian name! He started off being Ahmed but readers liked this other name better. Also, Amesh sounds a lot like Ahmed. Same difference! Although it turns out Ahmed isn't even a Turkish name and Turkish people will spell it Ahmet.
2) Turkish, Kurdish, Arab ... it's all a matter of perspective! Who's to say whether a Turkish person is Arab or not? (Not you because I know more about your own ethnic background than you do.)
3) But all those people he wrote about who dress strangely and have foreign names and address their grandfathers by unusual titles are supposed to be weird! We didn't misrepresent Turkish culture at all! It's just that all of those characters are supposed to be iconoclasts or hipsters or something. Yeah.
4) I totally saw a guy wearing a turban in Turkey once! Also, taxi drivers in London and New York wear turbans. (???)
5) All cultures even tangentially related to Islam and the Middle East are segregated, war-torn, and insanely conservative. It's illegal to swear and nobody sits near women and bloody wars are waged outside of the Hilton every night. :(
6) I'm just never going to address the fact that you're offended and feel that your culture was used like a dirty rag at all!
7) u mad :(

Ah, I remember well the Turkish capital, Istanbul, that desert city.

I nicked this from a mouse at wank_report (thank you mousey!)

ETA: A clever person on Amazon dug up proof that the "editor" Michael Brite is actually a sockpuppet of Christopher Pike himself. He seems to mostly use the account to leave worshipful reviews of his own books. Seriously:

Perhaps The Best Book I Have Ever Read
Christopher Pike's "Thirst" is a masterpiece. The book is not only a fantastic thriller, a mind boggling mystery, but a spiritual revelation. Alisa is a five thousand year old vampire who kills as casually as she makes love. Yet there remains deep within her a painful and yet abiding memory and love for a man she met when she was young, a man who may have been more than a man -- the mysterious Lord Krishna from the Bhagavad Gita, the equivalent of the Indian Bible. However, please do not get the idea this book is about religion. Pike's novel is totally free of dogma. He never says Krishna is God, and his heroine is never sure who Krishna truly is. Also, he is careful not to offend anyone's faith. But there is a heart breaking passage where two of the main characters debate the existence of God. They soon come to the conclusion that "God" is impossible to define or know, but whatever Krishna was, he was too powerful, and too beautiful, to disobey. And that leads to the crux of the story. The master vampire who has created Alisa must destroy all the vampires to gain salvation. Yet, ironically, Krishna has promised Alisa she will have his protection if she obeys him and never creates another vampire. It is the clash of these two contradictory vows that stands at the heart of this brilliant novel. Reading it, I felt I was given an insight into the mystery of life itself. Why, for every good impulse in the world, is there an opposing evil? Yet Pike tells this incredible morality play without preaching. In fact, I suspect most people who read the book will simply enjoy it because it is a kick-ass novel about the most intense character in all of modern fiction. I am trying to say "Thirst" is so much more than a vampire book. It is ultimately a timeless fable of how fear can change to hatred, and then to love, and finally mature into devotion. Pike has managed a small miracle by showing us that these emotion are not truly at odds with each other. For they all reside in every human heart, in the same way, perhaps, the divine does as well. I cannot recommend this book highly enough. It changed my life forever.

ETA again: Christopher Pike has now made an impressively paranoid post on a website of his accusing the original Amazon reviewer (caligirl_08) of posting negative reviews under multiple aliases, as well as claiming that [info]bookfails is a "livejournal community sponsored by someone of Turkish background who has taken things much too far and is trying to rob fiction authors of their artistic license".

Dear Author has also caught wind of this (last item on the page).

But wait, there's more!

caligirl_08 ([info]bs_08 on [info]bookfails) tackles Pike's aforementioned sexy vampire novel, Thirst. It ... well, I'm just going to leave this here:


Initial post: Nov. 7, 2009 3:08 AM PST
Michael Brite says:
It says clearly in the book that Sita was an Aryan, a well known group who invaded India five thousand years ago. They were all blond and blue-eyed.


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[info]seiberwing
2010-09-28 09:18 pm UTC (link)
I don't see how those two are even exclusive. Destroying all vampires + not making any more vampires = all vampires gone, y?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]everstar
2010-09-28 09:34 pm UTC (link)
Wow, I completely missed that. How on earth did I keep reading "destroy all vampires" as "make lots more"?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cleolinda
2010-09-28 09:48 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, that's the paradox I was struggling with. I just kept thinking the cold meds were making me loopy.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chaos_penguin
2010-09-29 04:47 am UTC (link)
Having read the book back in my teen years*, IIRC the issue was more that Krishna has told Vampire A that she'll be under his protection as long as she follows his rules, but also told Vampire B he'll have salvation only when he's killed all the other vampires, including Vampire A, who's supposedly under his protection and therefore unkillable (or something). This lead to some awkwardness when they finally met up.

Hell if that's particularly obvious from the way he explained it though.

* Teenage me would have to admit to enjoying the series at the time, though even she found the growing WTF-ery of the series harder to ignore with every book.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]seiberwing
2010-09-29 05:00 am UTC (link)
That does not make Krishna sound favorable.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ruslan
2010-09-29 05:04 am UTC (link)
... maybe it's better in context, but as I understand it now, doesn't that make Krishna kind of a dick?

Also, is salvation even an Indian a Hindu concept anyway? (I only know a couple of Hindu people, and I read the Bhagavad Gita yeeears ago and barely remember anything about it other than that it was just incredibly beautiful, so I'm not as well-versed as I'd like to be about this religion. I think I'll pick my Hindu friend's brain when I go and see her next.)

Jeez, that one paragraph is all I know about this book and already the spiritual themes are giving me a headache.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]greenling
2010-09-29 05:39 am UTC (link)
Also, is salvation even an Indian a Hindu concept anyway?

Salvation from what, is the real question. The fact that it goes unstated kind of implies the Christian cultural baggage comes with it, which would then imply "hell to the fuck no".

Regardless, though, I'm pretty sure it's going along with your dharma that gets you good consequences, not the fact that your childe is banging a god. Hindu gods (again, IIRC) are part of the cycle, not above it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chaos_penguin
2010-09-29 06:23 am UTC (link)
I think it was always phrased more like 'will have his grace' than 'will gain salvation' in the text, whether or not that's any better. You got the impression it was probably the Hindu equivalent of the same concept, but given his research fail in other areas it would be worth asking whether the Hindus even have a similar concept.

The way it actually played out, I dunno, kinda implied that the two of them figuring out how to get around the conundrum was part of the test, and not killing her turned out to be acceptable? IDK, it's been a long time since I read it, but the whole idea of a couple of morally ambiguous characters getting sorta screwed-over by contradictory instructions from a questionably benevolent god worked pretty well in context. Still, we're talking 'pretty good' for cheesy, angst-ridden, YA vampire romance here. Popcorn entertainment with a few halfway-interesting ideas about religion mixed in for flavour, sure. A soul-changing experience, no.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]plazmah
2010-09-29 05:12 pm UTC (link)
In Hinduism, there’s “salvation” from the cycles of rebirth (samsara), which is called moksha (which is better translated to liberation than salvation). Which is discussed in the Gita, but I haven’t read these novels so I have no idea what Pike was going for.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]everstar
2010-09-30 10:47 pm UTC (link)
I'm guessing Pike didn't know what Pike was going for either.

(Call me silly, but somehow I doubt he's actually read the Bhagavad Gita.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]commathulhu
2010-09-29 09:45 am UTC (link)
Yeaaah, books 4-6 are still all kinds of WTAF for me and I'm trying to blot them out of my memory. Even though they're on my bookshelf to remind me that they exist.

It's still not computing that there's going to be more Last Vampire books. Like, how in the hell are you going to out-crack book six? HOW.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]chaos_penguin
2010-09-29 11:38 am UTC (link)
Honestly, the series had already halfway lost me by the scene in the middle of book 2 where her reincarnated true wuv - y'know, the one who's life she'd nearly got herself killed saving at the end of book 1 - gets killed off in some random bomb blast, and is hardly mentioned again. Wasn't even particularlly epic or tragic just, whoops, now he's dead. Talk about anti-climatic.

After that, the aliens/Jesus/vampire baby/imaginary boyfriend WTF seemed more like the logical direction for the rest of the books. My only excuse is that at that age I was in the habit of finishing every series I started, no matter how weird it got.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bienegold
2010-09-30 04:11 am UTC (link)
Wait, how CAN it go past book 6? Like, literally, how?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]commathulhu
2010-09-30 07:48 am UTC (link)
I DON'T KNOW. I was cruising the first ETA with the sock being outed as Pike, and there was talk of Sita not being dead and Seymour is back. But that's when my brain kinda shrivels up on itself because I have no idea how another book can outcrack the epic crack of time travelling aliens.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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