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come_love_sleep ([info]come_love_sleep) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2011-03-27 19:12:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Aw, Gaiman, why you gotta play like that?
Neil Gaiman is scripting the James Cameron-assisted movie version of Journey to the West.

I feel really kinda queasy about this. There are no few Asian writers for whom this story came with their milk teeth, like Cinderella does to an English-speaker, and Gaiman has been...bad...about stuff relating to other cultures before. I really doubt that having been for a visit to China is enough to justify his treatment of the script.

(And let's not talk about James Cameron. Ick.)

Mercredigirl over at Dreamwidth has more to say.

(Post a new comment)


[info]sepiamagpie
2011-03-28 01:54 am UTC (link)
Oh please, don't fuck this up, Gaiman.

(Reply to this)


[info]miraba
2011-03-28 02:00 am UTC (link)
JFC. What is The Odyssey if not Greek?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]charamei
2011-03-28 03:01 pm UTC (link)
Oh, but it belongs to ~all of humanity~ because the Romans, er, imposed their (appropriated) culture on the entire Western world 2,000 years ago.

On one level, I can sort of agree with him; a story doesn't become that timeless without in some way appealing to the universals of human nature. But that doesn't make it unGreek; that makes it Greek and timeless.

Book II of the Iliad can be greatly simplified into 'And these Greek states are better than you,' FFS.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2011-03-28 03:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]charamei, 2011-03-28 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2011-03-28 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2011-03-28 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2011-03-28 10:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2011-03-28 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emily_goddess, 2011-03-29 04:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2011-03-29 06:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-30 12:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2011-03-29 12:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chienne, 2011-03-28 10:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-30 12:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2011-03-28 05:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]charamei, 2011-03-28 05:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2011-03-29 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fionnabhair, 2011-03-31 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charamei, 2011-03-31 02:47 am UTC

[info]finchbird
2011-03-28 02:17 am UTC (link)
So much >:| about this. Ugh.

(Reply to this)


[info]oxfordcomma
2011-03-28 03:26 am UTC (link)
Yikes. This is... worrisome, to put it mildly. Two trips to China do not magically do away with issues of cultural appropriation.

Even the fact that they're filming in China isn't about recognizing China as culturally authoritative here -- it's about saving money! AUGH.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rosehiptea
2011-03-28 07:50 am UTC (link)
Even the fact that they're filming in China isn't about recognizing China as culturally authoritative here -- it's about saving money!

Yeah, that really stuck out to me too.

And I'm tired of the idea that there has to be Western/American/white people version of everything. There really doesn't.

Note: I know Neil Gaiman isn't American, but Hollywood does this on a regular basis, so.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2011-03-30 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2011-03-30 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2011-03-30 10:03 pm UTC

[info]franzen
2011-03-28 04:15 am UTC (link)
You know, I will never "get" Neil Gaiman. To me, he seems to be another case of Joss Wheedon Feminism.

That being said, I'm not trying to be a bitch; I know how it feels to watch a creator you love fail to be what you'd hope. But as far as Gaiman goes -- as with Joss Wheedon -- how many times am I supposed to take it on good faith that he's really a good dude and there's more to be revealed that will show that it's not meant like that? From his recent actions, he screams "appropriating douche" to me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


ealusaid
2011-03-28 11:18 am UTC (link)
He has written work that, IMO, does a not-bad job of handling other cultures (Anansi Boys, Sandman). Which is, he's a talented guy, so sometimes he can make the appropriation work, so people put up with him.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cyan_aura, 2011-03-28 10:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyan_aura, 2011-03-28 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2011-03-28 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2011-03-30 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyan_aura, 2011-03-31 08:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2011-03-28 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2011-03-29 12:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2011-03-29 08:31 pm UTC

[info]aaron_agonistes
2011-03-28 04:28 am UTC (link)
Man, I was really excited about a new version of JttW, too. Thanks for pissing on that, Gaiman.

(Reply to this)


[info]spawn_of_kong
2011-03-28 08:12 am UTC (link)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this sort of thing better suited for [info]fandom_lounge? At this point, any fail related to this project is purely speculative, rather than any concrete examples.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]come_love_sleep
2011-03-28 08:14 am UTC (link)
I almost posted it there, but figured better safe than sorry; James Cameron's name attached to it is instantly faily enough.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]napalmnacey
2011-03-30 12:32 pm UTC (link)
I'm sorry, but two white guys at the helm of a classic Chinese story that deserves to have talented Chinese artists behind it is fail in itself. Very, very faily-fail fail.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]napalmnacey
2011-03-30 12:33 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, that should be "... at the helm of a movie about a..."

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]spawn_of_kong
2011-03-28 08:34 am UTC (link)
Also, I find Azuire's comment here to be out of line. If you have issues with Gaiman being involved with this, fine. But no need to suddenly bash the fans as well.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2011-03-28 03:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tez, 2011-03-28 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2011-03-29 12:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2011-03-28 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2011-03-29 12:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2011-03-29 11:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2011-03-30 05:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-30 12:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruffwriter, 2011-03-28 04:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2011-03-28 04:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-03-28 06:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-30 12:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2011-03-30 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2011-03-28 04:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2011-03-29 12:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandyclaws68, 2011-03-29 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2011-03-28 05:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kylenne, 2011-03-28 06:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pretzelcoatl, 2011-03-28 07:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2011-03-28 11:20 pm UTC

[info]ruffwriter
2011-03-28 05:23 pm UTC (link)
Argghhh. Please stop failing, Neil.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2011-03-28 10:40 pm UTC

[info]dark_puck
2011-03-28 05:29 pm UTC (link)
...suddenly Mercredigirl's post seems to be locked or gone. D:

I just saw it half an hour ago!

(Reply to this)


[info]notjo
2011-03-28 05:30 pm UTC (link)
MercrediGirl has locked her post.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dark_puck, 2011-03-28 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2011-03-29 02:07 am UTC

[info]sandyclaws68
2011-03-28 05:44 pm UTC (link)
(And let's not talk about James Cameron. Ick.)
Amen. A-freaking-men.

And now that I have read that Wikipedia article I am going to search this book out, because it sounds like a multitude of awesome. :)

(Reply to this)

Not to beat a dead horse, but...
[info]nifflet
2011-03-28 09:02 pm UTC (link)
As a classicist, the "Odyssey is not really Greek!" comment made me go "Buh-whaaaa?" I mean, maybe I'm just ~biased because I read the damn thing in Ancient Greek but...wow, that right there is a whole lot of fail. There are a LOT of sub-textual puns in Greek that literally cannot be translated into English, never mind the cultural background that permeates the entire epic. The language, the setting, the characters...they're all fucking GREEK. You can't get the story on anything other than a superficial level unless you know GREEK CULTURE. HOW THE FUCK IS THE ODYSSEY "NOT GREEK" AND OH MY BLOOD PRESSURE.

In fact, that whole spiel could just as easily be applied to a white dude writing a Chinese story. I don't care how much you admire the culture or how many times you've eaten dim sum, there are deep-seated cultural things that a born and raised Chinese person just knows better than you. Period. Let them have their own damn story and tell it their own damn way.

(Reply to this)


[info]sukeban
2011-03-28 11:24 pm UTC (link)
Can't say that I expect more than a repeat of The Forbidden Kingdom with the production values and fidelity to the overall original story of Beowulf.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]roachspit, 2011-03-29 02:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenbell, 2011-03-29 04:07 am UTC

[info]airawyn
2011-03-29 12:52 am UTC (link)
nothing Anglo-Saxon about Lord of the Rings

Ahahaha, what?! People actually say that? (No, I believe they do, just...)

You know who would disagree? Tolkien. Who wrote LotR so there would be an Anglo-Saxon folk tale. (Arthurian legend being too French, you see.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-03-29 04:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eclatante, 2011-03-29 08:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2011-03-29 08:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]airawyn, 2011-03-29 09:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kattahj, 2011-03-29 09:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2011-03-29 10:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-30 12:41 pm UTC

[info]ravenbell
2011-03-29 04:27 am UTC (link)
Maybe it'll be another "Graveyard Book." Or maybe it'll be another "Anansi Boys." Gaiman is capable of both, and it'll be interesting to see which he leans toward with this.

There have been many, many "Journey to the West" adaptations from all corners of the world, and I've seen some really rotten ones, from the awful Robert Halmi miniseries "The Forbidden Kingdom" to that idiotic "Saiyuki" anime. Let Gaiman and Cameron have a shot. They won't be the first Westerners to try to adapt the story, and they won't be the last.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sizer, 2011-03-29 10:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sizer, 2011-03-29 11:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2011-03-29 03:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sukeban, 2011-03-29 11:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2011-03-30 12:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sukeban, 2011-03-30 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2011-03-30 01:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eclatante, 2011-03-29 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]isaiddietpepsi, 2011-03-29 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2011-03-29 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenbell, 2011-03-30 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eclatante, 2011-03-30 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-30 12:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kedase_derragar, 2011-03-29 09:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sukeban, 2011-03-29 11:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2011-03-30 02:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenbell, 2011-03-30 04:36 am UTC

[info]napalmnacey
2011-03-30 11:45 am UTC (link)
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! I'm sorry, they couldn't get anyone in from China to do this? Even JAPAN, damn it, they've made and remade this story so many times it could make you dizzy! (Why yes, I'm a fan of the TV series from the 70s).

I can't fucking believe this. I am beyond pissed. Fuck this noise.

I'll be over here watching Monkey Magic. Both versions.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-30 12:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaseroque, 2011-03-31 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-03-31 06:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaseroque, 2011-04-01 04:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fujin, 2011-04-05 01:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-04-05 01:30 pm UTC

[info]zellieh
2011-04-01 01:03 am UTC (link)
Why do we even need Hollywood? If the Chinese backers want to make a film that can have crossover appeal in the West, they can do that without Cameron and Gaiman -- they could use the lead actors from, say, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and maybe add Jackie Chan, who (much as Hollywood has made him almost a caricature of himself lately) can act when he has to, and has been practicing his whole life to play Monkey.

And that's only the actors I, an ignorant white woman, know about.

Also, mythology?!? Even I know that Journey to the West is still a very important story in Buddhism -- which is nowhere near being a dead religion! -- and a living part of many Asian cultures, FFS!

(Reply to this)


[info]komorebi
2011-04-01 08:33 am UTC (link)
The s/o is arguing that it's valid on the matter of exposing a new story to an audience who would have never even heard about it. I... am not so sure.

(Reply to this)

  
   
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