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	spawn_of_kong 2011-03-28 08:34 am UTC (link)
	Also, I find Azuire's comment here to be out of line. If you have issues with Gaiman being involved with this, fine. But no need to suddenly bash the fans as well. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	phosfate 2011-03-28 03:12 pm UTC (link)
	Because we take everything he says and does as holy writ, and have no argument with him or his works, and never have. (Thanks again for those issues of Spawn, Neil. No, really. vomits delicately) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tez 2011-03-28 07:24 pm UTC (link)
	Being able to vomit delicately is quite a talent. I'm impressed. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sorchar 2011-03-29 12:12 am UTC (link)
	It takes a lot longer though. On the plus side, nobody has to hold your head back. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	snacky 2011-03-28 07:42 pm UTC (link)
	But Ann, if you're a fan of someone, it means you NEVER EVER QUESTION AND ONLY OFFER UNDYING SUPPORT OF ANYTHING they produce. No one who calls their self a fan would ever ever question anything... except for the ones who do...oh, WAIT A MINUTE. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sorchar 2011-03-29 12:13 am UTC (link)
	Thank you. I will adore Good Omens till the day I die, but that doesn't mean I'm down with Neil defending his wife's Nazi bullshit comments. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	blue_penguin 2011-03-29 11:38 am UTC (link)
	Good lord, what did she do now? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sorchar 2011-03-30 05:47 am UTC (link)
	Oh, just talking about the stuff from last year. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	napalmnacey 2011-03-30 12:33 pm UTC (link)
	You and my cat vomit the same! :O (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ruffwriter 2011-03-28 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	Seriously. I can be super-wary of this project and still love Coraline. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	spawn_of_kong 2011-03-28 04:35 pm UTC (link)
	What? Don't you know the minute your favorite author/director/creator does something you don't like, you are required by fandom law to completely disavow everything they've ever done or ever will do, and burn all your copies of their work? Honestly. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2011-03-28 06:01 pm UTC (link)
	It's true. (Reply to this)(Parent)

napalmnacey
2011-03-30 12:37 pm UTC (link)

Because that's exactly what we told you to do... except - holy shit! No we didn't!

I can enjoy Neil Gaiman's past works that have been enjoyable to me, and still find the man an incredible douchebag. I can also think he's talented but think that he's entirely unsuited to this project, given there's probably about, fuck, I dunno, a thousand or so people at least in Hollywood alone who are more knowledgeable about the subject matter and better suited for the work and DESERVE to work on a piece that is one of the most influential pieces of work to come out of their country

I'm not going to even start on the number of talented people in China who they could bring into this project.

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	spawn_of_kong 2011-03-30 11:54 pm UTC (link)
	Because that's exactly what we told you to do... except - holy shit! No we didn't! ...Except I never said that anyone here said such a thing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	spawn_of_kong 2011-03-28 04:43 pm UTC (link)
	Additionally, with regards to James Cameron, I can definitely be iffy about this project, but that won't stop me from loving Aliens, or even from somewhat enjoying Avatar* (yeah, it has problems, but I liked it enough to buy the special extended Blu-ray version, and still haven't lost any sleep over my decision). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tofuknight 2011-03-29 12:39 am UTC (link)
	still haven't lost any sleep over my decision You are a bad person and should feel badly about yourself. /sarcasm (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sandyclaws68 2011-03-29 12:42 am UTC (link)
	I've become really anti-Cameron in the last couple of years but that doesn't stop me from watching Terminator. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kookaburra 2011-03-28 05:32 pm UTC (link)
	Awww, it's locked. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)

kylenne
2011-03-28 06:56 pm UTC (link)

God help me for partially defending this shitty overgeneralizing comment, but I can kinda see where Azuire is coming from if I tilt my head and squint. It's a pattern with a lot of Fandom Approved White Dudes (see above comment where someone mentioned Joss Wheedon Feminism) where you'll sort of get jumped if they do something faily and you point out that it's not really an isolated incident and maybe this beloved guy really kind of is a douche. Neil Gaiman in particular tends to get pass after pass after pass from (mostly white) fans because he's generally talented and Sandman/Good Omens/etc was awesome, and there's an element of his fandom that definitely likes to holler at meen PoC for harshing their squee. Much more so than say, even Whedon, since it's gotten a bit more acceptable to criticize him over the last few years. "He wrote Anansi Boys, he can't be a racist, appropriating douchebag!" (?) People are a lot more willing to make excuses for him, and it's annoying.

Why Azuire extrapolated that wanky behavior to all Gaiman fans, I don't know. But I do understand where the frustration that led to that comment came from, even if it was shitty and erased the fans who aren't wanky and do question his fail/struggle with liking some of his work despite the BS. Hell, I used to be a Gaiman fan myself until I got tired of this kind of thing (and his Browncoat-esque segment of fans).

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	pretzelcoatl 2011-03-28 07:14 pm UTC (link)
	This was my line of thinking, too. Especially considering how I heard people defending his comments during this whole thing, and knew that they would be against them if it were any other author. I still like some of Neil Gaiman's stuff, but I don't think he's above fault and unfortunately some people do from my experience. (Reply to this)(Parent)

franzen
2011-03-28 11:20 pm UTC (link)

Thank you for saying what I meant to, far more eloquently. I've read some of Gaiman's work -- and don't get me wrong, I loved Sandman. But there's this sort of bottomless goodwill reservoir that seems to exist in certain fandom circles for him, for Joss -- two creators whose work I've tried, have enjoyed but not adored, and have found problematic. In both cases, my goodwill is exhausted -- there is enough history of fail out there that I no longer assume the best in any given sketch scenario. So my reaction to this piece was very "Gaiman does something douchey, water is wet, film at eleven." Not that he's a bad guy or that all of his work is intrinsically awful now, just that this is in no way surprising and the way certain parts of fandom fall over to make it a surprise, to downplay it, etc., can get really fucking old if you're already tired of having someone (whom you see) to have a history of questionable acts and SJ fail being held up as a fandom hero. Yes, he's funny. Yes, he says some cool things. But ... guys, come on.

Like you, I never meant to tar all his fans with the same brush, and of course it's possible to like an author and still find yourself disgusted by some of their comments. But it's more the routine of "SHOCK. AWE. THIS CANNOT BE. MORE WILL BE REVEALED." whenever Gaiman-related fail comes up that tires me out. Maybe I'm being harsh and inflexible in my judgments, but like I said -- this isn't the first time, it won't be the last, and while I'm sure he's capable of being awesome, when he does something like this, my reaction is much more "So he still hasn't learned anything then" rather than "This is totally out of character."

And I say this as someone who is not particularly invested in Neil or his work. I can imagine that if you are a longtime Neil fan, if you're doing the reckoning of his privilege vs. enjoyment of his work and wondering what to make of it, being told to sit down and shut up because this is NEIL, of course he's not going to appropriate would be infuriating. And could lead to, say, a hastily written blog post.

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