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h_landless (![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} h_landless) wrote in ![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/community.gif){kind=small} unfunny_fandom,@ 2011-04-02 13:58:00 |
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Lily totally abused Snape!
Rabid Snape fans continue to be misogynistic douchemuffins.
Lily's Hypocrisy
Ellen2
One assumes Snape is living quietly somewhere, perhaps Canada (where he may or may not have had spend some time adjusting to which side of the road they drive on).
MinervasCat
Yes, somewhere in rural Canada, where there aren't any people around for miles and miles and he can mix potions and send red, purple, or acid green clouds rising into the air without being bothered. I think he'd be happy just being away from it all...including Lily the harping shrew. In each of the memories we see her in she is ragging on him about something. I wonder: is that really the way he remembered her? I know he loved her very, very much, but, we don't see any really happy memories that aren't ruined by her storming off in a snit about something or just giving him what-for over and over.
Silver Ink Pot
It's sad ~ I think Snape was so desperate for a friend that he learned early on to put up with anything Lily dished out.
I saw an article the other day and wondered if it applied to Snape/Lily. This might seem controversial, but it was about the way people are manipulated by others. I think Snape's personality was conducive to this type of relationship because he felt powerless with his parents, even though he probably tried to please them the best he could. We see that behavior again with Lily, and then with Dumbledore.
Anyway these were the signs, and I think these can apply to Snape with Lily even if you see their relationship just as a friendship.
1. You’re always falling short of your partner’s expectations.
2. You often feel guilty in your relationship and are always looking to repair the “damage.”
3. You don’t often know where you stand with your partner.
4. You often feel like you’re walking on eggshells around him (or her).
5. You feel confused in the relationship and keep questioning or blaming yourself for making your partner angry or frustrated.
6. You’re unhappy in your relationship at least 90 percent of the time.
7. You’re anxious about telling your partner your plans
http://turningpoint.areavoices.com/2
MinervasCat
I think that list is right out of the Domestic Violence Counselors' Handbook. Those are warning signs when you are in a potentially abusive relationship (talk about de ja vu). We used to put those out in a brochure for junior high and highschool kids to warn them what to watch out for.
It's sad that Sev had to keep asking Lily if they were best friends...that he couldn't tell. I guess, compared to Tobias, Lily's attention was a pic nic. Sad that he had to settle for that and not someone who really cared for him.
As for storming off with Severus in tow...that, IMO, was just to get to Petunia. I don't think it really indicated that Lily gave a hoot. Sorry. She is definitely on my list of people I wouldn't want to have lunch with.
With all of his snarkiness and such, at least Severus made no bones about who he was. He didn't try to be Mr. Sunshine-and-Roses. What you saw was what you got. He was that way from the first time we see him at 9 and stayed that way all his life.
That is the hypocracy that I see in Lily, James, Sirius, and even Lupin. They are alwasy so wonderful, until you scratch the surface and then find they're not all that great after all.
Silver Ink Pot
What's interesting about the scene at the train station is that Lily is oblivious to Snape's poor mother and the fact that his father is not there to see him off because she has a family to worry about. In other words, she takes it for granted that Severus should be worried more about her relationship with Petunia than the fact that no one will apparently miss him when he's gone (just like Harry and the Dursleys).
I realize they are just kids, but Lily is neither sympathetic nor observant in that scene. It's all about her drama with Petunia.
And we are supposed to dislike Sev, I guess, because he doesn't want to hear about Petunia the Muggle - that's a sign he is a budding DE at age eleven. But really, that day on the train was the happiest day of his life, and Lily was raining on his parade, not to mention he then gets insulted and tripped up by James/Sirius.
I think Snape definitely had to walk on eggshells with Lily, and she reminds him of that when she dumps him - he wasn't good enough for her and she had to "explain" him to her friends.
MinervasCat
Quote from: fifthoffive on Yesterday at 08:56:49 AM
When I mentioned Lily storming out with Severus in tow, I was referring to when they left the compartment on the train after the confrontation with James et al. Lily took up for him there, and I expect that was one of Severus's happier memories of Lily. She chose him that day.
I'm sorry. You're right. She did take Sev out of the compartment after James and Sirius got to be so obnoxious. That was the first time she "defended" him in front of them. I wonder if that was when it became a challenge to James to separate them? Nah. They were only 11. He probably didn't come up with that until he was about 13 or 14. But, that moment was a positive one for Lily. That one I'll give her
fifthoffive
I suspect that Lily was the center of most of the conflicts. Lily was the prize to be won, not on her own account (at least at first), but by separating her from Severus, James et al. would be asserting their perceived superiority over Severus.
I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think the only times we actually see conflicts between Severus and the Marauders are on the train and SWM. (We don't actually get to see the werewolf episode do we?) The first scene shows Severus "winning" over the Marauders (Lily chooses him). The second shows the break where Lily is separated from Severus and the Marauders 'win."
Once Lily had chosen James, there was no room in her life for Severus. I don't think it mattered what Severus did or didn't do. It's much easier to dump someone when you can justify to yourself that they deserve it.
Fostwolf
I always figured that Lily left the compartment with Severus in tow becuse she was playing hard to get and it wouldn't have had the same effect if she had left alone. In other words she was already using other people to draw attention to herself. I think it also made her feel like such-a-much to have a boy lay outside her dorm room to beg her forgiveness and turn him down. Sort of "Look at me, so many boys want me that I can toss them away any time I feel like it for the smallest reason".
MinervasCat
Totally agree with both of the previous posts.
For someone who JKR has characters say so many nice things about later on, she seems to take pains to show us the negative side of Lily where Severus is involved. Wonder if that was an accident or if she meant to write Lily in such a negative light where Sev is concerned?
Throughout the books we see how quickly Harry, Hermione, and Ron come to one another's aid. That's the way a true "best friend" act. Hermione would have NEVER sat there that long and let Draco torture Ron like that...no would she have had to fight back a smile.
Silver Ink Pot
Great points, folks!
Yeah, about SWM: Why DID Lily let it go on so long?
She asked James, "What did he ever do to you?" and James answers that it's "Just because he exists, if you know what I mean."
The real question is, what did Snape ever do to Lily to make her want to see him tortured? Why did she leave him hanging out to dry so long in that scene, if she was so good at charms and apparently James/Sirius were somewhat afraid of her magical skill?
It's quite true that Hermione or Harry would never have let be at the mercy of a bully that long. I don't get it ...
Fostwolf
IMHO Lily wanted to be in the "cool" crowd. She wouldn't want to duel with the Maruders because #1 it wouldn't have been cool and #2 at 4 to 1 odds she might have been along side Severus with her skirt around her head. I think the Maruders (with the possable exception of James) would have thought that very funny. Besides back then girls didn't often interfear in fights between boys, they mostly just yelled from the sidelines. Same thing the other way around.
MinervasCat
Having survived the "pre-feminist" era pretty much in tact myself, I'd say that it wasn't Lily's fear of interfering because she was a girl...she'd already done that when she led Severus by the hand out of the train compartment. IMO, she had a thing for James and didn't want to interfere until it got so bad that she pretty much couldn't soothe her own conscience about her friend's plight.
Just the statement, "Becuase he exists, if you know what I mean," should have gotten James a couple of hexes that might have sent him to Madam Pomphrey, if he could walk that far. But, I agree that Lily didn't want to offend James because she "fancied" him too. I'm not sure why JKR wrote the timeline with them not starting to date until their seventh year. Maybe Lily just enjoyed having him dangling like another charm on a bracelet. Or, maybe he was so involved with his buddies he didn't have time for her. Since he and Sirius were practically joined at the hip, I'd say Sirius' would have known if James sneezed. So, he's probably a reliable source for the timeline. It just seems so odd that they wouldn't have picked up right at the beginning of their 6th year.
I know this has nothing to do with Lily, but, I wonder what Lupin did during school breaks? Did he miss having his "friends" to run through the countryside with. I'm sure when he was home he was watched a bit more closely during the full moon than he was at Hogwarts (where adult supervision seemed to be at a minimum, to say the least.)
fifthoffive
Quote from: Silver Ink Pot on Yesterday at 10:24:31 PM
She asked James, "What did he ever do to you?" and James answers that it's "Just because he exists, if you know what I mean."
James's comment is so cruel. It says a lot that Lily didn't recognize that.
Of course, I think she hung around Severus just because he existed. If he had been just a boy, not a wizard, she probably would have treated him the same way Petunia did. In a world full of wizards, Severus's existence wasn't so remarkable to her.
Rabid Snape fans continue to be misogynistic douchemuffins.
Lily's Hypocrisy
Ellen2
One assumes Snape is living quietly somewhere, perhaps Canada (where he may or may not have had spend some time adjusting to which side of the road they drive on).
MinervasCat
Yes, somewhere in rural Canada, where there aren't any people around for miles and miles and he can mix potions and send red, purple, or acid green clouds rising into the air without being bothered. I think he'd be happy just being away from it all...including Lily the harping shrew. In each of the memories we see her in she is ragging on him about something. I wonder: is that really the way he remembered her? I know he loved her very, very much, but, we don't see any really happy memories that aren't ruined by her storming off in a snit about something or just giving him what-for over and over.
Silver Ink Pot
It's sad ~ I think Snape was so desperate for a friend that he learned early on to put up with anything Lily dished out.
I saw an article the other day and wondered if it applied to Snape/Lily. This might seem controversial, but it was about the way people are manipulated by others. I think Snape's personality was conducive to this type of relationship because he felt powerless with his parents, even though he probably tried to please them the best he could. We see that behavior again with Lily, and then with Dumbledore.
Anyway these were the signs, and I think these can apply to Snape with Lily even if you see their relationship just as a friendship.
1. You’re always falling short of your partner’s expectations.
2. You often feel guilty in your relationship and are always looking to repair the “damage.”
3. You don’t often know where you stand with your partner.
4. You often feel like you’re walking on eggshells around him (or her).
5. You feel confused in the relationship and keep questioning or blaming yourself for making your partner angry or frustrated.
6. You’re unhappy in your relationship at least 90 percent of the time.
7. You’re anxious about telling your partner your plans
http://turningpoint.areavoices.com/2
MinervasCat
I think that list is right out of the Domestic Violence Counselors' Handbook. Those are warning signs when you are in a potentially abusive relationship (talk about de ja vu). We used to put those out in a brochure for junior high and highschool kids to warn them what to watch out for.
It's sad that Sev had to keep asking Lily if they were best friends...that he couldn't tell. I guess, compared to Tobias, Lily's attention was a pic nic. Sad that he had to settle for that and not someone who really cared for him.
As for storming off with Severus in tow...that, IMO, was just to get to Petunia. I don't think it really indicated that Lily gave a hoot. Sorry. She is definitely on my list of people I wouldn't want to have lunch with.
With all of his snarkiness and such, at least Severus made no bones about who he was. He didn't try to be Mr. Sunshine-and-Roses. What you saw was what you got. He was that way from the first time we see him at 9 and stayed that way all his life.
That is the hypocracy that I see in Lily, James, Sirius, and even Lupin. They are alwasy so wonderful, until you scratch the surface and then find they're not all that great after all.
Silver Ink Pot
What's interesting about the scene at the train station is that Lily is oblivious to Snape's poor mother and the fact that his father is not there to see him off because she has a family to worry about. In other words, she takes it for granted that Severus should be worried more about her relationship with Petunia than the fact that no one will apparently miss him when he's gone (just like Harry and the Dursleys).
I realize they are just kids, but Lily is neither sympathetic nor observant in that scene. It's all about her drama with Petunia.
And we are supposed to dislike Sev, I guess, because he doesn't want to hear about Petunia the Muggle - that's a sign he is a budding DE at age eleven. But really, that day on the train was the happiest day of his life, and Lily was raining on his parade, not to mention he then gets insulted and tripped up by James/Sirius.
I think Snape definitely had to walk on eggshells with Lily, and she reminds him of that when she dumps him - he wasn't good enough for her and she had to "explain" him to her friends.
MinervasCat
Quote from: fifthoffive on Yesterday at 08:56:49 AM
When I mentioned Lily storming out with Severus in tow, I was referring to when they left the compartment on the train after the confrontation with James et al. Lily took up for him there, and I expect that was one of Severus's happier memories of Lily. She chose him that day.
I'm sorry. You're right. She did take Sev out of the compartment after James and Sirius got to be so obnoxious. That was the first time she "defended" him in front of them. I wonder if that was when it became a challenge to James to separate them? Nah. They were only 11. He probably didn't come up with that until he was about 13 or 14. But, that moment was a positive one for Lily. That one I'll give her
fifthoffive
I suspect that Lily was the center of most of the conflicts. Lily was the prize to be won, not on her own account (at least at first), but by separating her from Severus, James et al. would be asserting their perceived superiority over Severus.
I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think the only times we actually see conflicts between Severus and the Marauders are on the train and SWM. (We don't actually get to see the werewolf episode do we?) The first scene shows Severus "winning" over the Marauders (Lily chooses him). The second shows the break where Lily is separated from Severus and the Marauders 'win."
Once Lily had chosen James, there was no room in her life for Severus. I don't think it mattered what Severus did or didn't do. It's much easier to dump someone when you can justify to yourself that they deserve it.
Fostwolf
I always figured that Lily left the compartment with Severus in tow becuse she was playing hard to get and it wouldn't have had the same effect if she had left alone. In other words she was already using other people to draw attention to herself. I think it also made her feel like such-a-much to have a boy lay outside her dorm room to beg her forgiveness and turn him down. Sort of "Look at me, so many boys want me that I can toss them away any time I feel like it for the smallest reason".
MinervasCat
Totally agree with both of the previous posts.
For someone who JKR has characters say so many nice things about later on, she seems to take pains to show us the negative side of Lily where Severus is involved. Wonder if that was an accident or if she meant to write Lily in such a negative light where Sev is concerned?
Throughout the books we see how quickly Harry, Hermione, and Ron come to one another's aid. That's the way a true "best friend" act. Hermione would have NEVER sat there that long and let Draco torture Ron like that...no would she have had to fight back a smile.
Silver Ink Pot
Great points, folks!
Yeah, about SWM: Why DID Lily let it go on so long?
She asked James, "What did he ever do to you?" and James answers that it's "Just because he exists, if you know what I mean."
The real question is, what did Snape ever do to Lily to make her want to see him tortured? Why did she leave him hanging out to dry so long in that scene, if she was so good at charms and apparently James/Sirius were somewhat afraid of her magical skill?
It's quite true that Hermione or Harry would never have let be at the mercy of a bully that long. I don't get it ...
Fostwolf
IMHO Lily wanted to be in the "cool" crowd. She wouldn't want to duel with the Maruders because #1 it wouldn't have been cool and #2 at 4 to 1 odds she might have been along side Severus with her skirt around her head. I think the Maruders (with the possable exception of James) would have thought that very funny. Besides back then girls didn't often interfear in fights between boys, they mostly just yelled from the sidelines. Same thing the other way around.
MinervasCat
Having survived the "pre-feminist" era pretty much in tact myself, I'd say that it wasn't Lily's fear of interfering because she was a girl...she'd already done that when she led Severus by the hand out of the train compartment. IMO, she had a thing for James and didn't want to interfere until it got so bad that she pretty much couldn't soothe her own conscience about her friend's plight.
Just the statement, "Becuase he exists, if you know what I mean," should have gotten James a couple of hexes that might have sent him to Madam Pomphrey, if he could walk that far. But, I agree that Lily didn't want to offend James because she "fancied" him too. I'm not sure why JKR wrote the timeline with them not starting to date until their seventh year. Maybe Lily just enjoyed having him dangling like another charm on a bracelet. Or, maybe he was so involved with his buddies he didn't have time for her. Since he and Sirius were practically joined at the hip, I'd say Sirius' would have known if James sneezed. So, he's probably a reliable source for the timeline. It just seems so odd that they wouldn't have picked up right at the beginning of their 6th year.
I know this has nothing to do with Lily, but, I wonder what Lupin did during school breaks? Did he miss having his "friends" to run through the countryside with. I'm sure when he was home he was watched a bit more closely during the full moon than he was at Hogwarts (where adult supervision seemed to be at a minimum, to say the least.)
fifthoffive
Quote from: Silver Ink Pot on Yesterday at 10:24:31 PM
She asked James, "What did he ever do to you?" and James answers that it's "Just because he exists, if you know what I mean."
James's comment is so cruel. It says a lot that Lily didn't recognize that.
Of course, I think she hung around Severus just because he existed. If he had been just a boy, not a wizard, she probably would have treated him the same way Petunia did. In a world full of wizards, Severus's existence wasn't so remarkable to her.
