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	ravenscanary 2008-05-04 03:01 am UTC (link)
	"OMG GUIZ UNASSISTED CHILDBIRTH ITZ SO CRAY-ZAY!" whut? The feminist post isn't wanky. (For once.) THIS is wanky. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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snarkhunter, 2008-05-04 05:13 pm UTC

	limyaael 2008-05-04 03:02 am UTC (link)
	But if she had a midwife there, the midwife might stick her fingers in her vagina to check for dilation! OMG ick! Girl cooties! Seriously, I don't get why this woman is saying that this is a better choice by definition. Of course, the post starting off with, "Ricki Lake did a study..." should have been my first clue. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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mistressrenet, 2008-05-04 02:56 pm UTC

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papervolcano, 2008-05-04 08:09 pm UTC

	atalantapendrag 2008-05-04 03:56 am UTC (link)
	holds up a lighter FREEBIRTH! I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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splorch, 2008-05-04 04:11 am UTC

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seiberwing, 2008-05-04 05:32 am UTC

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blankverses, 2008-05-05 06:23 pm UTC

come_love_sleep
2008-05-04 04:21 am UTC (link)

Aaargh!

The way we do pregnancy and childbirth in this country? Stupid. We didn't even let men into the room until what, the 'Seventies? And that required some husband to handcuff himself to his laboring wife because the cops wanted to force him out? Too many C-sections, and oh, god, the automatic episiotomies, senseless birth positions because it makes it 'easier on the health care technician,' on and on and on...

but freebirth?
Fuck no. I mean, the stuff that can go wrong--what if the baby doesn't turn right? What if the cord is around his neck? What if you get some nice uterine separation going on, how are you going to stop yourself bleeding before you die? Reach up in there yourself?

We do things wrong. This is wrong too.

//soapbox

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airawyn, 2008-05-04 04:40 am UTC

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lyssa, 2008-05-06 08:30 pm UTC

princessjessia
2008-05-04 04:37 am UTC (link)

I just love how it's all about them. "I don't want this, I don't want that. WHATEVER, WHATEVER, I DO WHAT I WANT!" Yes, it is the adult person's body in question, but I bet your kid would want a few things out of this too, such as some form of professional assistance if, god forbid, something goes wrong.

Wow, childbirth might shockingly be about your child in the end? CLEVER HOW THEY NAME THESE THINGS.

Okay, done.

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	lil_miss_stfu 2008-05-04 05:05 am UTC (link)
	They keep talking about things being empowering or unempowering or disempowering... The term lost meaning for me about the third mention in. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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negativecosine, 2008-05-04 06:08 am UTC

	aristaea 2008-05-04 05:56 am UTC (link)
	You know what I find empowering? Other women not trying to tell me how to be a woman. If I want to be part of an ebol patriarchal medical culture that seeks to separate us from our natural biological inheritance through science, then I will be, and there's nothing wrong with that. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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chaimonkey, 2008-05-04 06:09 am UTC

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rosehiptea, 2008-05-06 09:28 pm UTC

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da_angel729, 2008-05-04 08:06 pm UTC

	welcome to <lj user="feminist"> chaimonkey 2008-05-04 06:08 am UTC (link)
	Disagreement not allowed. (Reply to this)

	esclaramonde 2008-05-04 08:22 am UTC (link)
	When your icon says "Mary gave birth without medication or help!" I know I'm going to trust you. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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azazello, 2008-05-04 08:26 am UTC

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erototoxin, 2008-05-04 08:45 am UTC

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luthe, 2008-05-09 03:42 am UTC

azazello
2008-05-04 08:34 am UTC (link)

Yeah, but their tyranny is just as much a tyranny as the other sort.

I'd like women to be able to make informed choices, based on belief, knowledge of their own health, AND have access to medical intervention should the need arise.

I'm not into pain. I found childbirth extremely painful and was grateful for what medical aid was given (pethedine, gas and air). Labour also went on too long and I needed intervention too. I was profoundly grateful; in a previous century I might have died. I'd not have thanked someone being all sanctimonious about it at the time and tell me I should have eschewed such evil technology. And I wasn't aspiring to be a character in a Dickens novel, either.

That being said, I'd certainly prefer to see more choice in birth methods being supported by the medical establishment. Hospitals could make these facilities available, and the professions could support a freer range of birth options.

I loled at the icon: "What would Mary Choose" - because in 0 AD, IIRC there was NO choice.

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rikiki, 2008-05-04 01:08 pm UTC

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azazello, 2008-05-04 01:56 pm UTC

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sparkysrevenge, 2008-05-04 06:05 pm UTC

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momcat, 2008-05-05 05:44 am UTC

rhiannonmr
2008-05-04 09:48 am UTC (link)

There is just too much stupid in the world ya know? I've given birth and all of my pregnancies can be considered high risk due to blood factors. I am Rh negative and before Rhogham that would've meant issues with the baby. Bet this one starts screaming for drugs as soon as the pain hits.

I agree we do too many c-sections in the US. There's a reason though. It's called defensive medicine. Obstetricians have some of the highest malpractice insurance rates out there, and quite a few of them quit when the rates get too high. One lawsuit usually does it, and Americans love to sue. I agree that choice is important, but sheesh! Having a kid unassisted? That's not choice! That's boneheaded!

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tachikoma01, 2008-05-04 04:31 pm UTC

camilla
2008-05-04 09:49 am UTC (link)

I'm also of the 'as natural as possible' conviction, and was very happy that my doctor, a woman, and my two midwives (one in training), didn't give a peep when I was giving birth, letting me do what I felt like doing, and were only present just in case because I was overdue and < /tmi >

That said, there is a book by some cult leader in our local library that says everyone should have their children at home without assistance. In the book it's all explained as sunshine and roses of course, but I know of at least seven couples who have killed their baby that way, hope there aren't any more people who fell for it. I thought of asking the library to take that book off the shelves, but am pretty sure I would get the 'lol no freedom of expression' answer, so I haven't. :/

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limyaael, 2008-05-04 01:44 pm UTC

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queencallipygos, 2008-05-05 06:54 pm UTC

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camilla, 2008-05-04 10:04 pm UTC

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snarkhunter, 2008-05-04 11:54 pm UTC

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camilla, 2008-05-04 11:59 pm UTC

Incomplete misinformation is no one's friend -

julesnoctambule, 2008-05-05 06:19 pm UTC

Re: Incomplete misinformation is no one's friend -

mistressrenet, 2008-05-05 07:47 pm UTC

Re: Incomplete misinformation is no one's friend -

julesnoctambule, 2008-05-05 07:48 pm UTC

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telophase, 2008-05-07 05:23 pm UTC

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beachlass, 2008-05-07 05:35 pm UTC

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camilla, 2008-05-07 11:37 pm UTC

	rowanberries 2008-05-04 10:36 am UTC (link)
	Personally, I think anaesthetic is very empowering. Unite, sisters! (Reply to this)(Thread)

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chibikaijuu, 2008-05-04 04:01 pm UTC

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sisterelwood, 2008-05-05 05:15 am UTC

	missm 2008-05-04 04:34 pm UTC (link)
	We must remember to as Elisabeth Frizl how much fun it was. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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missm, 2008-05-04 04:38 pm UTC

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julesnoctambule, 2008-05-05 06:26 pm UTC

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maegwin_of_hern, 2008-05-05 04:39 am UTC

tachikoma01
2008-05-04 04:35 pm UTC (link)

I read a fascinating article in a magazine (which I could remember which one) recently about how hospitals are graded on how healthy the BABY is when it's born, but receive no grade at all on how well the mother is doing after the treatment.

This has lead to a rise in C-sections at the expense of the health of the mothers because it is in the interest of the hospital's ratings to ensure the baby is born as healthy as possible, no matter what they have to do to the mother. In a case where the mom probably could push the baby out if given time but would result in a sickly/low-rating (but surviveable) child versus a C-section with a high-rating baby, the hospital will go for the C-section.

Thus, the solution to fewer C-sections might be to require the hospitals to be rated on how well the mothers are doing post birth as well as the child.

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silrana, 2008-05-05 03:32 am UTC

frequentmouse
2008-05-04 04:35 pm UTC (link)

When, long ago, I was pregnant for the first time, I remembered a friend of ours who delivered his daughter at home because his car broke down and the ambulance couldn't find his house, and took a homebirthing class from Cat Feral even though I was planning a hospital birth. She'd had, at that point, four unassisted home-births herself, and she STILL gave sufficient information that nobody else would have chosen unassisted birth.

However: the term "Lay Midwife" bothers me, because it's still used by the US medical establishment to describe all direct-entry, non-RN midwifes, and LPMs from Seattle Midwifery School and similar institutions have long supervised practicums which give them more experience than new RN- CNMs.

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erototoxin
2008-05-04 04:42 pm UTC (link)

What really bothers me is the implication that women who had C-sections FAILED at childbirth, they were pawns of the evil medical establishment, and that while they have a healthy baby they will never be as CLOSE to their child due to not having the magical bonding experience of pushing it out. Their birth experience is EPIC FAIL. It almost sounds like they should give that kid up and try harder next time til they get it right.

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coffee_mug, 2008-05-04 05:36 pm UTC

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vampychick, 2008-05-06 03:16 am UTC

limyaael
2008-05-04 04:47 pm UTC (link)

In response to one commentator who worried about her having no assistance, the OP says:

I know how to check my own dilation, so it's not as if I couldn't possibly know without the help of a "trained professional". However, I should mention that no, I don't believe it will even be necessary. I think I will just know when it's really time to push. I won't be panicking, or freaking out. I will wait for my own body and for my baby, to signal when it is really time. I guess either you trust you body, or you don't. I don't know how else to explain it.

Because childbirth is mystical, you guys. So mystical and special and yay that procedures a midwife would do aren't even necessary, and if you think they are, you just don't trust your body OMG.

What an idiot.

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erototoxin, 2008-05-04 04:55 pm UTC

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	melancthe 2008-05-04 04:59 pm UTC (link)
	My son would have died if I'd had him at home (very premature, etc). Today, he's happy and healthy. So, a big FUCK YOU to people telling me how to have my kid. (Reply to this)

	coffee_mug 2008-05-04 05:38 pm UTC (link)
	Far too many posts at feminist communities and blogs remind me of this one quote in a Finnish feminist women's magazine: "No matter what a woman does with her body or her life, there is always somebody who vehemently opposes her choice - and that somebody is most likely another woman." (Reply to this)

	sparkysrevenge 2008-05-04 06:11 pm UTC (link)
	I suspect some of the anti C-section women are women who are so afraid that their gorgeous stomachs will be ruined by having a scar. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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spacelogic, 2008-05-05 05:55 am UTC

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sparkysrevenge, 2008-05-05 08:56 pm UTC

	herongale 2008-05-04 07:50 pm UTC (link)
	I personally believe Jesus floated out of Mary's womb in a cloud of angels wings. And was licked clean by angel kittens while in the manger. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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velvet_mace, 2008-05-05 03:17 am UTC

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sevendeadlyfun, 2008-05-05 03:42 pm UTC

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julesnoctambule, 2008-05-05 06:31 pm UTC

Don't worry Jesus, angel!Cat is on her way! -

beachlass, 2008-05-05 07:25 pm UTC

	lerefuge 2008-05-04 08:36 pm UTC (link)
	Empowering childbirth? Okay. (Reply to this)

velvet_mace
2008-05-05 03:15 am UTC (link)

Nothing says female empowerment like giving birth like you live in a poor third-world nation.

I am currently 29 weeks pregnant, and due mid-July with my first child.

When I was 29 weeks I had fantasies about how I was going to breathe through my pain, and my perfect darling was going to come out into my loving arms and be the easiest most perfect kid ever. 45+ hours of labor and a child with mild autism has taught me to love professional assistance.

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	sisterelwood 2008-05-05 05:18 am UTC (link)
	Far be it for me to tell another woman what to do but for me... If I'm squeezing something the size of a bowling ball out of my vagina I'm sure as SHIT gonna be hopped up on painkillers. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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rowanberries, 2008-05-05 12:01 pm UTC

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rosehiptea, 2008-05-05 03:00 pm UTC

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lyssa, 2008-05-06 08:48 pm UTC

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mistressrenet, 2008-05-05 07:46 pm UTC

It's all a matter of personal experience -

frequentmouse, 2008-05-05 07:52 pm UTC

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