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	snowden 2008-05-05 04:13 pm UTC (link)
	Oh wow, I should NOT have read the comments on that article: I know this will probably get me in trouble, but with all the illegals who work at a race track... That sentence ended about as well as you would have expected. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	thoms 2008-05-05 04:19 pm UTC (link)
	That one was gone by the time I went back to look for it, I think I'm happy about that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	marciamarcia 2008-05-05 04:32 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, for fuck's sake. Really? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	blue_penguin 2008-05-05 06:35 pm UTC (link)
	headdesk headdesk headdesk Thanks for warning me, then -- I'm not going to read the comments now, because if there's more like that I'd rather not know. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	snowden 2008-05-05 06:47 pm UTC (link)
	You're welcome! If you need me I'll be in the shower washing off the filth. :D (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	completely OT... suthunfox 2008-05-07 09:35 am UTC (link)
	...but is that Troy in your icon? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: completely OT... snowden 2008-05-08 02:45 am UTC (link)
	Yes! For some reason I completely love that little dork. ♥ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	utahraptor 2008-05-06 12:29 am UTC (link)
	Didn't YouTube teach you anything? Always expect massive stupidity in the comments sections. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kylenne 2008-05-05 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	PETA is like the ultimate "get the fuck off my side, you're making it look wanky" group. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	erototoxin 2008-05-07 10:39 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, they manage to transform even the occasional sensible thought into pure wank. It's MAGICAL. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chaimonkey 2008-05-05 06:22 pm UTC (link)
	Oh Ingrid - when you stop taking your insulin shots, then I'll listen. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	exdee 2008-05-05 08:47 pm UTC (link)
	It was Ingrid? I thought it was her second-in-command or something who defended her insulin use by saying that she needed to live so she could save animals? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	thoms 2008-05-05 09:22 pm UTC (link)
	It was the other one, MaryBeth Sweetland, who said that. I remember that quote more than anything from the P&T show about PETA. (Reply to this)(Parent)

chaimonkey
2008-05-05 10:14 pm UTC (link)

Oh my bad, it was. Ingrid's responsible for this lovely quote instead:

PETA President Ingrid Newkirk -- in a Machiavellian moment -- explains how killing more than a thousand animals PETA accepted for shelter in 1999 is "ethical," because it frees up more money to mount offensive "press slut" campaigns:

"It is a totally rotten business, but sometimes the only kind option for some animals is to put them to sleep forever... It sounds lovely if you're naïve. We could become a no-kill shelter immediately. It means we wouldn't do as much work."
--The Virginian-Pilot, August 1, 2000

http://www.consumerfreedom.org/news_detail.cfm/headline/2628

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	frequentmouse 2008-05-06 04:34 pm UTC (link)
	Unless she's living in a time warp, she's probably taking tissue culture humulin. (Now, flu shots, maybe, although even PETA is going to have a problem with sacrificial chick embryos). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chibikaijuu 2008-05-06 07:00 pm UTC (link)
	I do believe when the statement was issued, Sweetland would have been taking animal-derived insulin. (Reply to this)(Parent)

chaimonkey
2008-05-06 11:49 pm UTC (link)

chibikaijuu said, the statement was from 1990 - but still quite self-obsessed:

"I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufactured insulin that still contains some animal products -- and I have no qualms about it ... I'm not going to take the chance of killing myself by not taking insulin. I don't see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals."
--Glamour, January 1990

http://www.consumerfreedom.org/news_detail.cfm/headline/2628

Also, see the quote from Ingrid in that article about how she justifies putting down most of the dogs and cats their shelters take in.

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	dejana 2008-05-05 06:30 pm UTC (link)
	Can't say I object to their demands. An online petition, though? That's gonna get far... -_- (Reply to this)(Thread)

silrana
2008-05-05 07:26 pm UTC (link)

Actually, their demands are completely ridiculous, though most people who don't know horse racing wouldn't realize it.

1 - Training a horse is a long careful process. If trainers weren't allowed to start until the horse was three, their careers would be over before they began. It's the equivalent of saying nobody can play basketball until they're 25, and have to start training for the NBA from there.

2 - Synthetic tracks are not the panacea that PETA thinks they are. They don't dry out as quickly as dirt tracks after rains, which can lead to a different type of injury from slipping and having difficulty getting traction.

3 - Trainers are the best judges of the limitations of their horse. Slapping an arbitrary race limit would just be silly. In fact, lightly raced horses are more likely to get hurt because they don't have as much experience.

4 - Now PETA is just being silly. By using terms like 'whipped mercilessly' they are trying to conjure up an image of someone using a bullwhip on a horse. Crops have a tiny leather loop on the tip of them, and slapped on a horse's rump it doesn't even work up to the level of a good pinch. It's a signal taught to the horses in their training for "Okay, time to go!" Part of a jockey's job is to pace the horse to its running style, and using the crop is part of the communication process.

And as for the poor jockey, there is no way he could have run her on two broken ankles. The footage clearly showed her bobbling just after she crossed the finish line and I have no doubt that's when it happened. But unless the injury is catastrophic enough to make the horse fall, it takes time to get a horse at full gallop to stop. PETA just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Oops. Um... anyone have a tissue?

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	dejana 2008-05-05 07:44 pm UTC (link)
	I did think #4 was excessive, and going after the jockey is crap. The insight on the other three demands is appreciated, though. Thanks for the informative response. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iwanttobeasleep 2008-05-05 07:45 pm UTC (link)
	I was with PETA on the first one when I thought they just said "racing." Cuz that filli's legs do look really spindly and all. But no training? LOL, stfu PETA. The image of a jockey mercilously whipping a horse with a crop while riding is fantastically funny. He'd end up more taxed than the horse. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dejana 2008-05-05 07:47 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, the "racing" angle of the age requirement I still can't say I disagree with. :\ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dejana 2008-05-05 07:47 pm UTC (link)
	Since you're here, what's your response to the apparent recent increase in serious injuries to horses? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

silrana
2008-05-05 08:06 pm UTC (link)

There actually is something to be concerned about, PETA is just looking in the wrong place. The problem starts in the breeding barn.

What we are seeing is the result of a decades-long breeding pattern. Long races fell out of favor because it is harder to build tracks to run them properly, and it takes the horses longer to recover enough to race again. So tracks started dropping long races from their schedules. In response, the racing stables started looking for speed horses since endurance was no longer as big a necessity. This in turn led the breeding farms to pair stallions and mares to maximize speed over stamina.

You know how a lot of dog breeds now have genetic problems because of inbreeding to produce the perfect AKC dog? The same thing has happened to thoroughbred horses. The same bloodlines have been crossed and recrossed so many times that there are now a lot of worries about the soundness of their lower legs. The ankle breaks that Eight Belles suffered are the exact same type that happened to Barbaro in the Preakness.

Horse racing has never been a "safe" sport. Accidents and breakdowns have happened all through history. But both fans and pros have noticed a real problem with lower leg soundness, and not just recently. Unfortunately, a hole that took decades to dig is not going to be fixed in an instant.

And I should be clear that this is one of several theories about why there have been so many problems lately. It's the one I believe to be true, but there might be another cause.

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	chaimonkey 2008-05-05 10:24 pm UTC (link)
	That's the angle I was thinking as well. I figured horse trainers, jockeys, etc. know their horses and are smart enough to know not to push them too hard - after all, they're a huge investment. After the injury I was remarking to my folks about how they lost a great breeding mare, even if she hadn't won, second is a great thing to tack onto the breeding price. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

silrana
2008-05-05 10:49 pm UTC (link)

It was certainly not an accomplishment to sneeze at. Before this Derby, there have been three fillies who won and only one other second place filly. Naturally she wouldn't be worth as much as a stallion - far fewer possible offspring - but she would have been worth a great deal of money.

Another thing I'm sure PETA never thought of is that the horses are examined by a vet before the race. Even if an owner or trainer is blinded by the dazzling experience of having a horse in the Derby, the track vets can scratch the horse if they feel it isn't in good health. Nobody in the industry wants things like this to happen, and everything possible is done to prevent it. But nothing is perfect, and there is no way of knowing in advance that a horse is going to burn their ankles exactly the wrong way.

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frequentmouse
2008-05-06 04:42 pm UTC (link)

(Jan says Belgians don't break down).

There was someone on Sunday Weekend Edition talking about the Northern Dancer breedline and how pervasive it is in current racehorse lines- Both Eight Belles and Barbaro go back to Northern Dancer on a large majority of their ancestry. Lots of sprint speed, notoriously weak distal bones.

I wish I could say it was just thoroughbreds, but animal husbandry in general is more and more prone to overselection; I've seen reports which indicate that all the Holstein calves born in any year come from fewer than (a hundred, to be generous) bulls.

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	miss_padfoot 2008-05-07 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	I wish I could say it was just thoroughbreds, but animal husbandry in general is more and more prone to overselection; I've seen reports which indicate that all the Holstein calves born in any year come from fewer than (a hundred, to be generous) bulls. Wouldn't that eventually lead to inbreeding and those rare recessive genetic diseases? That sounds like a bad idea. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	erototoxin 2008-05-07 10:38 pm UTC (link)
	Pugs are bred to have flat faces, which results in constricted nasal passages - many of the pugs I know have had "nose jobs" to widen them. My boy breathes just fine, but he is proof that pugs are NOT BRED FOR BRAINS. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

pocketfox
2008-05-05 08:40 pm UTC (link)

1 - Training a horse is a long careful process. If trainers weren't allowed to start until the horse was three, their careers would be over before they began. It's the equivalent of saying nobody can play basketball until they're 25, and have to start training for the NBA from there.

Yyyyyyeah, someone ought to ask PETA how long they think training a racehorse (or any horse) takes.

Of course, this is just par for the course for them. Hyperbole, exaggeration, vilifying, considering facts to be nothing more than needless details...

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	thoms 2008-05-05 09:27 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you so much for this. I'm directing a few friends to your comment, because you put it more succinctly than my frothyrage over "fuckin' PETA get your fuckin' claws out of the sport." (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

silrana
2008-05-05 10:17 pm UTC (link)

Sounds like my reaction. Heaven knows that not everyone involved in racing is a saint, but it pisses me off when someone acts like trainers, jockeys, hot walkers, etc. would be so stupid as to be cavalier with the health of animals worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I'm not involved in racing, I'm just a fan. But I grew up near Churchill Downs, and could handicap a race by the time I was ten (my brother had his own copy of Ainslie's). And a friend of my Dad's was the lead rider there for years, so I heard a lot of stories. Plus one of Dad's clients every so often gave him his old copies of Bloodhorse, which I devoured, because in those days you could only get a subscription if you were actually a racing professional.

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thoms
2008-05-05 10:50 pm UTC (link)

No, that's true. It was like I was telling a friend, I know there's cruelty in the sport, but the good people outweigh the bad.

Oh, and did you see PETA's open letter to Senator Clinton, chastising her for placing a bet on Eight Belles? That started a whole new frothyrage in me, particularly the part about "horses ending up on dinner plates."

I know that some horses are still sent off to slaughter like that, but then there's the places like Old Friends Equine, where they can gracefully retire and I realize how far the sport has come.

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	esclaramonde 2008-05-05 09:57 pm UTC (link)
	This is v. interesting! Also, I think you don't have to worry. Unfunnybusiness seems to expect or even encourage srs bsns! (Reply to this)(Parent)

moonjaguar
2008-05-05 10:45 pm UTC (link)

I saw Countess Inro break her leg at Arlington and she didn't want to be slowed down and moved away from the rest of the field. She was "WTF pit stop? This isn't NASCAR!" and her leg was practically flapping after she was stripped and led to the trailer. I don't know if she's still living (she was foaled in '81 and it was I think '85 when she broke her leg) but I wonder what kind of stress living with a shored-up break is, especially for a broodmare.

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	entrenous88 2008-05-05 10:47 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks for this informative comment. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rosehiptea
2008-05-06 01:49 am UTC (link)

Thanks... I was thinking "That doesn't sound so unreasonable" but I figured to someone who knew more about horse racing they might sound pretty silly. (I did realize jockeys don't use a "whip" and I think it's pretty inflammatory of them to imply that they do... and I agree that going after the jockey is crap. Even if I thought the worst of jockeys I don't buy that they ignore serious injuries.)

Of course, I'm not exactly unbiased about PETA... when I hear stuff from them I generally like to see it confirmed in sources less known for batshit.

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	eucalyptus 2008-05-20 08:19 pm UTC (link)
	Artificial turf doesn't do well in colder climates either. (Reply to this)(Parent)

hold_nothing
2008-05-06 03:44 am UTC (link)

They're already blaming the poor thing's death solely on the jockey and trainer, for using excessive force and neglecting her. Obviously there couldn't have been any factors that were simply out of their control that an autopsy might turn up. Surely there's no need to actually discuss these demands with people who actually know something about racing, either.

Ugh. PETA, why must you be so utterly batshit?

They have a form letter on their website that you can edit before sending it on to the KHRA chairman through them. I'm tempted to do some serious editing for them.

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	pantyless_angel 2008-05-06 04:30 pm UTC (link)
	PETA should just shut the fuck up until they stop killing animals themselves. I can't believe there are so many people who don't see PETA for the batshit hypocrites they are. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	chaimonkey 2008-05-07 12:02 am UTC (link)
	A-fucking-men. (Reply to this)(Parent)