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	spacelogic 2009-05-31 06:01 pm UTC (link)
	...Why use more than one letter anyway? There someone new and more important than McCoy whose name starts with M? (Reply to this)(Thread)

sheep, 2009-05-31 06:17 pm UTC

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spacelogic, 2009-05-31 06:31 pm UTC

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witty, 2009-05-31 08:14 pm UTC

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fuzzytowers, 2009-06-01 01:16 am UTC

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doomsday, 2009-06-01 03:41 am UTC

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soupspooks, 2009-06-01 09:53 pm UTC

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yoritomo_reiko, 2009-05-31 06:20 pm UTC

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cat_mcdougall, 2009-05-31 09:39 pm UTC

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spacelogic, 2009-05-31 10:57 pm UTC

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cat_mcdougall, 2009-05-31 11:00 pm UTC

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sheep, 2009-05-31 11:06 pm UTC

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cat_mcdougall, 2009-05-31 11:10 pm UTC

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sheep, 2009-05-31 11:27 pm UTC

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cat_mcdougall, 2009-05-31 11:32 pm UTC

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sheep, 2009-05-31 11:41 pm UTC

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agent_hyatt, 2009-06-01 07:44 am UTC

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sheep, 2009-06-01 08:11 am UTC

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sheep, 2009-05-31 11:04 pm UTC

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agent_hyatt, 2009-06-01 07:49 am UTC

	xero_sky 2009-05-31 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	So... abbreviations are tools of the patriarchal/racist/classist/privilegist/bourgeois/insensitive-bastard oppressors? That must make acronyms tools of Satan, and smushed-up ship names something... even worse. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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sheep, 2009-05-31 06:11 pm UTC

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roachspit, 2009-06-01 03:48 pm UTC

	paranoidandroid 2009-05-31 06:15 pm UTC (link)
	Old or new McCoy? I only have the new one: (credit: pyooma) (credit: no idea, but not me!) For old and new version, http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_startrek/ should fulfill all your wishes. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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sheep, 2009-05-31 11:45 pm UTC

	snarkhunter 2009-05-31 06:22 pm UTC (link)
	I'm with the person who went "...whut?" I am usually right there with the "words have power to hurt and we should be careful" crowd, but...really? (Reply to this)(Thread)

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spacelogic, 2009-05-31 06:35 pm UTC

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libelle, 2009-05-31 08:55 pm UTC

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eleutheria, 2009-05-31 10:04 pm UTC

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spacelogic, 2009-05-31 10:46 pm UTC

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eleutheria, 2009-05-31 11:19 pm UTC

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rachelmap, 2009-05-31 10:13 pm UTC

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snarkhunter, 2009-05-31 11:00 pm UTC

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vzg, 2009-06-05 05:56 am UTC

	coffee_mug 2009-05-31 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	I thought the racial slur for Irish/Irish-Americans was "mick", not "mack/mac". Then again, this information comes from watching way too much OZ so... I embrace political correctness and whatnot but this strikes me as a huge over-reaction. Agree with this commenter. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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queencallipygos, 2009-05-31 07:09 pm UTC

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deliciouschaos, 2009-05-31 09:00 pm UTC

	insanitys_place 2009-05-31 06:44 pm UTC (link)
	Should I be ashamed that my parents named me in a way that my initials spell Mac? Should I be offended that my friends call me Mac? Am I horrible for not getting my righteous indignation on every time my roommate introduced me as Mac? (Reply to this)(Thread)

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finchbird, 2009-06-01 04:30 am UTC

	queencallipygos 2009-05-31 07:09 pm UTC (link)
	Some people seem to enjoy going to great lengths to be offended, don't they? (Reply to this)

	stellar_dust 2009-05-31 07:28 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, sweet, does that mean we can stop calling it McShep now, too? (Reply to this)(Thread)

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witty, 2009-05-31 08:15 pm UTC

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melannen, 2009-05-31 10:45 pm UTC

	ayezur 2009-05-31 07:56 pm UTC (link)
	I don't think this belongs here. I mean, it's actually funny. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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sheep, 2009-05-31 08:19 pm UTC

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ayezur, 2009-05-31 08:21 pm UTC

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ruffwriter, 2009-05-31 10:31 pm UTC

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sisterelwood, 2009-06-01 03:43 am UTC

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sheep, 2009-06-01 08:09 am UTC

	bobafeis 2009-05-31 08:21 pm UTC (link)
	After an involved conversation about this with my mother, we have moved from "Whut?" to "Hey, we have a special last initial, and everyone else is just a jellis hater OH NOES!" (One of my schools actually did give all of us Mc and Mac people a separate filing category. I was sad when I changed schools.) (Reply to this)(Thread)

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sheep, 2009-05-31 08:24 pm UTC

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bobafeis, 2009-05-31 08:45 pm UTC

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sheep, 2009-05-31 09:42 pm UTC

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mary_mac, 2009-05-31 11:11 pm UTC

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fern_on_fen, 2009-05-31 09:42 pm UTC

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ellensmithee, 2009-05-31 10:59 pm UTC

dodge_and_weave
2009-05-31 08:37 pm UTC (link)

There's a few neighborhoods on the SW side of Chicago where you still get called a Mick if you are southside Irish and someone wants to insult you over something. As recently as Memorial weekend, there were people at a party talking about how the Micks have all the union jobs and don't let anyone else in.

But I still think the K/Mc pairing name is no big deal. It's been that way as long as I've been a Trek fan.

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risha, 2009-05-31 09:44 pm UTC

	rosalita 2009-05-31 08:40 pm UTC (link)
	Just goes to show that people will get their panties in a bunch over anything. (Reply to this)

	haunted 2009-05-31 08:44 pm UTC (link)
	Ha! -an actual Irish person's opinion. (Reply to this)

	risha 2009-05-31 09:34 pm UTC (link)
	Yeeahhh. I think that zephyrprince went right over the edge with this one. I'd never call someone a mick (even if I wasn't more than half Irish and Scots-Irish myself), but Mc? If you haven't to go back more than a hundred years to find the use of a term as a common slur, it's probably safe to let it go. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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risha, 2009-05-31 09:36 pm UTC

	fresco_le_raye 2009-05-31 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	Mc is not offensive. Mc is a large section of the phone book round here. What is offensive is Americans who consider themselves to be experts on Irish and Scottish culture telling Irish and Scottish people exactly what is, and is not, offensive. (Reply to this)

	Green Wing quote to those who know that show. coffee_mug 2009-05-31 09:49 pm UTC (link)
	Guy: That's how I remembered your name. Mac: Yeah? Guy: Massively Annoying Chap. Mac: Massively Annoying Chap? Guy: Yeah, M-A-C. I was going to say Massively Annoying ... (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Green Wing quote to those who know that show. -

mary_mac, 2009-05-31 10:58 pm UTC

Re: Green Wing quote to those who know that show. -

coffee_mug, 2009-06-01 08:02 am UTC

	imp 2009-05-31 10:26 pm UTC (link)
	While I am mostly of Irish descent, I'm also one of those Americans that know absolutely nothing about their heritage, so I'm willing to admit that perhaps I just don't understand the gravity of these terrifying initials. But... I am seriously not getting how that could be offensive. And I'm excruciatingly politically correct. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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mary_mac, 2009-05-31 11:06 pm UTC

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sisterelwood, 2009-06-01 01:45 am UTC

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mary_mac, 2009-06-01 09:26 am UTC

	bienegold 2009-05-31 11:14 pm UTC (link)
	For pity's sake. Mc != Mick. If you were talking about the ship, would you say "Kay slash Mick?" OF COURSE NOT. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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iamnotyourmuse, 2009-06-01 11:44 am UTC

	ealusaid 2009-05-31 11:32 pm UTC (link)
	I adore you for posting something funny to this community. And wow is that reaching really hard to be offended. (Reply to this)

sisterelwood
2009-06-01 01:06 am UTC (link)

Personally, I would be offended at being called a 'Mick'- I'm an American descendant of an Irish-Catholic family that came over in 1836 and 1850. However, 'Mc'? No. That's really reaching to be offended by something. BUT- I gotta say that telling someone that the strong anti-Irish sentiment of America's past is no longer relevant made my blood boil. I can't find the comment that had that in it now of course but it made me want to punch things.

I'm not going to say what that is like saying but I think you can fill in the blanks. My great-great grandfather didn't come to America for kicks- it was that, go to jail, be killed, or starve to death. He comes to America and is met every which way with signs of 'No Irish Need Apply'. He didn't want to leave his homeland- he was forced to.

I absolutely LOVED this comment from an actual Irish citizen-

If, as has happened in the past, someone were to call me a 'Mick' or a 'Taig' or a 'Fenian bitch', then I would be offended and insulted. Those are actual powerful insults used against people of Irish heritage, particularly those of Irish Catholic heritage—but they're now pretty much only used in Ireland and in Scotland, not in the USA. But regardless of location, abbreviating someone's surname to 'Mc' is not offensive, and does not carry any of the loaded weight of the terms I mentioned above.

I find the whole post more sad than anything else. So many Irish-Americans are ignorant of their heritage- that includes the OP of that post.

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sisterelwood, 2009-06-01 01:09 am UTC

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cmdr_zoom, 2009-06-01 02:07 am UTC

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sisterelwood, 2009-06-01 02:09 am UTC

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kookaburra, 2009-06-01 10:28 am UTC

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microclimate, 2009-06-01 06:19 am UTC

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sisterelwood, 2009-06-01 04:53 pm UTC

vorpal_blade
2009-06-01 02:29 am UTC (link)

Um, no. "McCoy" is his name. That's what the Mc stands for, period. It is not an ethnic slur. And there are loads of people whose names are "Mick". Mick Jagger, for instance. Are we not supposed to use these people's names anymore because they're supposedly ethnic slurs?

Just because something's been used in a derogatory way doesn't make all uses of it derogatory. If someone's name is McSomething or Mick they're still allowed to have that name and/or abbreviate it. Next people will be asking dog breeders to refer to their female animals as something else because "bitch" is considered offensive. Sometimes a term that could, under certain circumstances, be considered offensive, is an appropriate term to use in a non-offensive situation. The term itself, in this case, isn't a problem when used in this manner.

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sisterelwood, 2009-06-01 02:40 am UTC

wook77
2009-06-01 05:34 am UTC (link)

My favorite is his ETA. He's so Irish that he doesn't even know that the language is referred to as "Irish" and not Gaelic.

Edit: I've been informed that it is actually more correct to refer to the language of the Irish people as Irish rather than Gaelic, which is a language group. I don't think this is how it is commonly identified in colloquial speech in the United States so it is good to know.

Disclaimer: I posted a response to his crazy but the point of my response sort of soared over his head so I just didn't go back.

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microclimate, 2009-06-01 06:06 am UTC

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wook77, 2009-06-01 06:08 am UTC

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kalakagatha, 2009-06-01 12:36 pm UTC

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esclaramonde, 2009-06-01 04:27 pm UTC

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yoritomo_reiko, 2009-06-01 04:28 pm UTC

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kenovay, 2009-07-04 06:00 pm UTC

mary_mac
2009-06-01 01:50 pm UTC (link)

They have a new post up about it now.

In general I don't appreciate when people say things like "This isn't a place to talk about how to be PC. It's a place to talk about gay love in space." It's the whole "discussion of racism or any other discrimination is harshing my squee" bit, which totally sucks. That in particular really punches my buttons too because people can really only take pleasure in fic of gay male love because of lived experiences of gay men and not all of us also enjoy the pinnacle of racial and ethnic privilage so that's just part of the deal. Of course the person posting that comment could also have been a gay male but if not then it is totally unacceptable for hir to tell me when it is and is not appropriate to be discussing gay love.

Honey, people were not doing "discussion of racism or any other discrimination is harshing my squee". People were telling you you are wrong. There is a difference.

Actually, does anyone know the reliability of the Racial Slurs Database thing they were linking too? Becasue on my cursory scan of the 'Irish' section its not that accurate (let alone that it is categorising 'Mc' with 'Mick').

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becktionary, 2009-06-01 07:20 pm UTC

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mary_mac, 2009-06-01 09:07 pm UTC

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taterbird, 2009-06-03 02:40 am UTC

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irradiated, 2009-06-01 08:41 pm UTC

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mary_mac, 2009-06-01 09:00 pm UTC

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bienegold, 2009-06-01 09:29 pm UTC

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irradiated, 2009-06-01 09:47 pm UTC

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bienegold, 2009-06-01 09:51 pm UTC

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	pyratejenni 2009-06-01 02:08 pm UTC (link)
	And she flocked it. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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sheep, 2009-06-01 04:10 pm UTC

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holyheadharpy, 2009-06-02 12:20 am UTC

	holyheadharpy 2009-06-02 12:19 am UTC (link)
	Pssssst It's over on his/her dreamwidth http://zephyrprince.dreamwidth.org/856380.html (Reply to this)(Thread)

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mary_mac, 2009-06-02 04:47 pm UTC