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	hallidae 2009-07-24 06:45 am UTC (link)
	Ooh, rm's in there, trying again to drill points into idiots. Good luck with that. (Reply to this)

	dana 2009-07-24 07:23 am UTC (link)
	I want them to make Sherlock Holmes and Watson, and then someone wrote it and published it, and then it was (don't ask me again what the book was called I think it's called 'Dearest Holmes'! Woohoo. Now I want them to adapt that to film. Give it a 50 odd years, someone will queer up Trek. Maybe...who knows. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	gardnerhill 2009-07-24 07:29 am UTC (link)
	"My Dearest Holmes" by Rohase Piercy. Awesome book. OTOH, "The Erotic Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" is just flat-out gay porn -- right down to the ugly, unhappy endings. (Don't gay men want to smile after they've masturbated, or is that all part of that virulent subsumed morality that lurks under all of the lowest porn media?) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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urpletastic, 2009-07-24 08:35 am UTC

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	bienegold 2009-07-24 08:42 am UTC (link)
	See trek! See trek love! Love, trek, love! Sorry, that's all I can think about whenever someone links me to that stupid page. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	_goblin_ 2009-07-24 05:53 pm UTC (link)
	That made me lol. :D (Reply to this)(Parent)

	bobafeis 2009-07-24 09:00 am UTC (link)
	The utter WTF-ery of this boggles my mind. It's just so... stupid. On every level. And really? They had good intentions!!! DUN BE MEEN!! Really? (Reply to this)

	bandit 2009-07-24 09:32 am UTC (link)
	There are no words to accurately express my rage at this. It really pisses me off. (Reply to this)

rani
2009-07-24 09:54 am UTC (link)

Okay, mostly unfunny and rage-inducing, but this:

If you'd read about our cause, you'd see that the focus is on K/S for several reasons: first, when you aim high, with a specific goal in mind, you have a bargaining chip.

...is COMEDY GOLD. They are just using the RULES OF HAGGLING, it's perfectly logical. Like they're demanding K/S as an opening bid, Abrams will come back with McCoy/Original Male Character, and they'll settle on Sulu/Checkov. *thumbs up* It'll totally work, you guys, they do it like this on Bargain Hunt all the time!

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evilsqueakers
2009-07-24 11:39 am UTC (link)

Like they're demanding K/S as an opening bid, Abrams will come back with McCoy/Original Male Character, and they'll settle on Sulu/Checkov.

Your description made me think of all the house buying shows, like House Hunters or My First Place. You know where the buyers are all "how dare they not except my lowball price!" and the sellers are like "Uh...45k under price is not going to get my house, sorry." In the end, they meet somewhere in the middle with neither party getting nearly what they think they deserve but happy to be done with the tedious negotiations.

I might watch House Hunters far too often.

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	nam_jai 2009-07-24 02:54 pm UTC (link)
	Oh no no, Abrams' opening bid will be hot girl/girl action! But these activists won't stand for that. They'll hold out for hot boy/boy action, because that's a more principled stand, or something. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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rosehiptea, 2009-07-24 07:13 pm UTC

watersword
2009-07-24 03:05 pm UTC (link)

It's like John Oliver explaining the Bush = Lincoln thing (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-10-2007/bush-and-lincoln). Relevant bit:

on Stewart: I'm joined now by Senior Comparative Presidential Historian, John Oliver. Uh, Bush and Lincoln? Clearly the pundits are trying to make that comparison. Is this a fair comparison?
John Oliver: It's not a comparison at all, Jon. It's an opening bid. The first salvo by the President in the negotiation over where he'll rank among his predecessors. Obviously, he's starting high. He knows he's not going to GET Lincoln; it's just part of the game. Bush opens with Lincoln; America comes back with Harding. Bush says, "Harding? You're killing me here! I'm at least Eisenhower!" America says, "I'm sorry, we can't go any higher than Hoover." And so on and so forth, until we all settle on something in the low "Van Buren" range.
Jon Stewart: Are there any similarities, historically, between Bush and Lincoln?
John Oliver: There are some, Jon. Both men presided over civil wars. One ours and historically inevitable; one someone else's and ridiculously evitable. Both men suspended the writ of habeas corpus, although Lincoln did mention it publicly. And, of course, both weren't afraid of the grand gesture: we all remember Lincoln on the deck of the U.S.S. Monitor hailing the end of Civil War combat operations three years before the South actually surrendered.

Which was awesome. On the other hand, John Oliver is a comedian. I don't think these people get their paychecks for being funny.

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feenix
2009-07-24 10:09 am UTC (link)

I'm just...what. I've barely read through this and I have no idea what the hell is going on with this shit.

To srs about this (as a Queer Male™ and a fan, though not of Star Trek), yes - my dear - it is possible to seperate your agendas as a slasher and as an LBGT activist.

I mean, using Harry Potter as an example...would it have been more striking if Harry had ditched Ginny at the end and run off with Draco into the sunset? Perhaps. More likely, it would have seemed like a tawdry shoutout to certain fanfic writers whose pen-names rhyme with Shawanda Blair, and just fandom in general.

But does that mean that Dumbledore/Grindelwald was a cop-out to appease the queer fans? Not at all. I think Rowling's acknowledgement of that was just as impactful as anything else - and if it had been written into the book canon, it would have been even more so. (Though, I don't think there's any way that Harry would have known, as Dumbledore dies in Book 6 and I don't think Grindelwald (who's already long dead, I think) even factors in until DH.)

In general, I don't think SEE's mission is necessarily bad, you know? I'd like to see more positive portrayals of homosexual relationships and not just the stereotypical played-for-laughs feather-boa-wielding queen with a lisp and a limp wrist or (even worse) the titillating lesbians. Because we're ALL turned on by HAWT women making out and being objectified, right? Right.

But seriously, this is kind of like if the Harmonians got all self-righteous and decided that since Hermione's interracial (actually, I've heard both ways), pairing the white hero of the series off with the white sister of the white sidekick is racism and thus H/Hr MUST be.

In other words: Epic fail from SEE.

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	feenix 2009-07-24 10:16 am UTC (link)
	...I really shouldn't be drinking tea when I read this entire wank. Jesus Christ someone needs to hit ani_coolgirl with a clue-by-four. Repeatedly. Apparently, Star Trek created interracial people! The More You Know. (Reply to this)(Parent)

chikane
2009-07-24 11:59 am UTC (link)

Because we're ALL turned on by HAWT women making out and being objectified, right? Right.

Well, here I am, wondering where all these hawt lesbians are in TV/movies. I seem to always miss them for some reason.

I know, people keep saying that there's lots, but I see way more gay men. The 'titilating lesbian' really seems to be more of a myth than a fact.

Ah, more proper representation of F/F and M/M, how nice would it be? Too nice, apparently. Damnit.

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	_goblin_ 2009-07-24 06:11 pm UTC (link)
	SEE didn't think through the implications very well, but it was the OP who turned that post to FAIL with her reverse-Midas touch. Like, if the point is to see LBGT relationships depicted openly in popular culture, then don't turn the thread into an argument about how your fap fantasies are more logical than other people's fap fantasies. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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	erinny 2009-07-24 07:46 pm UTC (link)
	On the issue of HP canon (sorry, I can't help myself): doesn't Voldemort kill Grindelwald during the events of DH? Granted, Grindelwald has been stuck in that prison he made (right?) for years upon years and is basically out of commission, but I think that's when he actually dies. Right? (Damn it, this comment was SUPPOSED to be helpful...) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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ari_o, 2009-07-24 11:42 pm UTC

	ariadne484 2009-07-25 02:06 am UTC (link)
	When I first looked at the length of your comment I thought it was going to be Thoughts on Yaoi, but instead everything you've written here is sensible and awesome. I'm wowed. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	alienist 2009-07-25 07:28 am UTC (link)
	That's what's really pissing me off - they're co-opting a valid movement to further their shipping agenda. And, you know, it's not like interracial relationships could use more exposure either. (Also...Hermione is interracial?) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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napalmnacey, 2009-07-25 08:38 pm UTC

amireal
2009-07-24 11:55 am UTC (link)

I think I learned everything I needed to know about the people, motivations and ideals behind this 'movement' when I read the first line to comm post they made.

"I know pimping isn't allowed but..."

You can guess where it went from there. If you're gonna start with that level of entitlement, you're going to have to excuse the conclusions I draw from the of what you're going to say.

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	holyheadharpy 2009-07-24 02:03 pm UTC (link)
	I prefer Kirk/Bones myself. (Reply to this)(Thread)

A little OT -

deadwood, 2009-07-24 03:12 pm UTC

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microclimate
2009-07-24 06:43 pm UTC (link)

UNFUNNY BINGO TIEM. IF YOU PREFER TO GET TRASHED, WHIP OUT A BOTTLE O' YOUR FAVORITE HEAVY ALCOHOL AND A SHOT GLASS AND GETS TO SIPPIN':

Instead of criticizing them, people should be trying to help them. Their hearts are in the right place, but the execution wasn't thought out well enough.

IF ONLY THESE ENRAGED PEOPLE HAD ~TAUGHT~ US HOW TO BE CULTURALLY SENSITIVE!!

I'm hoping that the SEE folks will change their minds about how they're approaching everything. Considering how hostile a lot of people are being though, they might not out of pure stubbornness, which I kind of understand. People are being awfully hard on them, and approaching them the wrong way could be counterproductive.

WATCH YOUR TONE GAISE

ANYONE GOT ANY MORE CLASSICS

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	beccafran 2009-07-24 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	Uhura is one of my favorite characters and the movement actually wants to maximize her role instead of reducing her to a "girlfriend" role. [here] ...but they'd be totally fine with "reducing" Spock to the "boyfriend" role! (Reply to this)(Thread)

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ari_o, 2009-07-24 07:10 pm UTC

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	re_weird 2009-07-24 07:56 pm UTC (link)
	Assholes co-opting my sexuality to argue for their ship does not equal a plea for civil rights. I'd love to see more f/f couples and m/m couples (that aren't a cop-out in some way) but this isn't the way to do it. On the plus side, I'm pretty sure I have bingo. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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bandit, 2009-07-25 05:06 pm UTC

aaron_agonistes
2009-07-24 08:47 pm UTC (link)

During a tumultuous time when interracial relationships met opposition, Kirk and Uhura shared the first televised interracial kiss.

False. They filmed them kissing and not kissing, and in the end, the censors demanded that a not-kissing shot was used.

Since Kirk and Spock's relationship spawned slash fan fiction...

False. Yes, K/S was the first time anybody called it "slash", but you know there've been Jesus/Judas 'shippers going way back. And Achilles/Patroclus, and Holmes/Watson. The Gay did not start with Star Trek.

But I think Kirk/Spock has a sort of symbolic quality to it that any other pairing chosen would lack. They have so much history, that putting them together makes sense in a way.

...You missed the part where this is a reboot, didn't you?

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	serai 2009-07-25 09:05 pm UTC (link)
	The entitlement is really stunning. Because really, if the writers (or J.J., or any of the actors) ever saw that, the most likely reaction from them BY FAR would be hysterical laughter. Also, notes to security to be sure they're banned from the lot or any sets. (Reply to this)