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ari_o ([info]ari_o) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2009-08-12 13:29:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
colorblind =/= enlightened
[info]arhyalon For World Con, I was put on a diversity panel. I probably should have bowed out. I am against the idea of diversity as a political movement. I didn’t bow out, and I didn’t get to say a great deal, because there were six of us. But I did get to say that my kids go to schools that could be the poster schools for diversity. There are no two kids of the same color sitting next to each other. Because of this, my kids don’t notice race.

With further gems like:

"She said this to me—the person who didn’t notice that one of her friends was Black or that another was Korean (I just thought of him as ‘really cute’) until it was pointed out (unfortunately, in both cases it was pointed out when they told a story about someone being prejudice against them.)"

[info]karnythia's angry response kind of washed away the disgusting aftertaste.

eta: While poking through their info I see [info]arhyalon and her husband both went to St. John's College and I will just be over hear shutting my ears in the oven door to keep from posting at their LJs to say they have made me ashamed to be a Johnnie.



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[info]sistercoyote
2009-08-12 06:55 pm UTC (link)
You know, I know this gets tossed around a lot, but there are things one really shouldn't get to be "against" if one is part of the dominant paradigm.

I saw that on ABW this morning and wanted to bite someone.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-12 06:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-12 07:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-12 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2009-08-13 05:11 am UTC

[info]rikiki
2009-08-12 07:28 pm UTC (link)
Wow, isn't she so lucky to be so blind. Or maybe her town is made of magic.

I was going to have a long, rambly rant, but it's not really my place or the place. All I have to say is, she's comparing teasing in elementary school to racism? Seriously? Does it hurt to be that clueless? I hope it does. I sincerely hope it does.

(Reply to this)


[info]mpreg_elfblair
2009-08-12 07:40 pm UTC (link)
Her husband is also a peach.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rikiki, 2009-08-12 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2009-08-12 10:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]inalasahl, 2009-08-17 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]inalasahl, 2009-08-17 09:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacelogic, 2009-08-12 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-12 10:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jun_motomiya17, 2009-08-13 04:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2009-08-13 08:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2009-08-13 01:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-12 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-12 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-16 02:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-16 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]inalasahl, 2009-08-17 09:13 pm UTC

[info]melannen
2009-08-12 07:58 pm UTC (link)
I can kind of see where arhyalon is coming from - I grew up near where she lives, in an area that's probably one of the most diverse in the country (and probably one of the best in the world for diversity within the middle and upper class.) I ran some statistics at my high school; the average classroom was 30-60% White, with the rest of the students identifying as African American, as South African and Nigerian and Sudanese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese from Taiwan and Hong Kong and from communist China (and lord help you if you got the Chinas confused, much less all the other East Asians), Singaporean and Hindu and Jain and Jewish and Pakistani and El Salvadorean and Mexican and Thai and Puerto Rican and Filipino and Romani and Lebanese, recent immigrants and families who've been here for generations and people here just for a year or so ... I'm used to principals and administrators and other official authority figures not being White, I'm used to not being able to guess racial identity by phenotype alone, and - not most of the time, not even often, but regularly enough that I learned early on how to cope - know what it's like to be severely in the minority as a White person in a group.

That means I do tend to see race in a different way than a lot of other white Americans: I've only just been realizing how much so as a result of discussions in fandom of white peoples' experiences with race, and how often I don't recognize those descriptions as my own.

That doesn't mean I'm colorblind. That doesn't mean I'm not racist. That just means I'm more likely to fail in arhyalon's way of failing, or other more subtle ways, than the ways most people are used to looking out for. It means I have to be even more careful speaking out, because I'm not speaking from ignorance about other races - I'm still speaking from White privilege.

(And of *course* the Black kids sat together and the Korean kids sat together and the Hispanic kids sat together and the White Trash* sat together! Sure, that didn't trump the cheerleaders sitting together and the drama kids sitting together and the geeks sitting together and the goths sitting together, but it was definitely visible, and it was everybody's fallback. Arhyalon, in observing her kids' lunch tables, may be failing to notice that elementary and middle schools often have *assigned seating.* ..or failing to notice that for every integrated table there's another segregated one.)

Also, if she went to school in Annapolis and managed to *not notice* the vast and inescapable racial inequities and economic segregation everywhere around her in that city - and it's a very small city, so it's very hard to hide from - she is completely incapable of observing facts in her environment, and should lose her writing licence.


*I use that term only because a) they used it of themselves, b) I sat there sometimes too, and c) I know no better term for people who are marked-white rather than default-white.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-12 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2009-08-12 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-12 08:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2009-08-13 12:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-12 09:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2009-08-13 12:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sablemouse, 2009-08-13 04:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]renata_hpjc, 2009-08-14 02:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-16 10:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mydemand, 2009-08-16 11:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2009-08-13 12:59 am UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-14 03:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bobafeis, 2009-08-13 08:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]elektra3, 2009-08-13 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2009-08-14 12:02 am UTC

[info]esorlehcar
2009-08-12 08:41 pm UTC (link)
I've been reading this shit all morning. I don't know why I continue to be amazed after the seething cauldron of RaceFail, but... holy shit. She doesn't see color, and she can prove it by detail the race of every non-white person she knows, occasionally going so far as to specify their specific color ("dark as pitch")? She knows a couple who got married but didn't notice one was black and one was white? She's knows she's not racist because the black people she thought were dangerous robbed her? How can you be this stupid and still manage to dress yourself?

And you missed her second post, which is even better. This fucking DOUCHEWAD appropriates karnythia's stories of dealing with prejudice and suggests that her life would be so much better if she'd just shut up, stop being so outspoken, and just let all races live together in peace.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-12 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-12 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2009-08-12 09:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-12 09:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2009-08-12 09:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-12 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2009-08-12 10:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-12 09:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-13 12:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-13 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysphinx, 2009-08-13 04:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-13 04:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2009-08-14 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2009-08-13 02:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2009-08-13 10:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hyaenid, 2009-08-13 04:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hyaenid, 2009-08-13 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 04:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dez_chan, 2009-08-13 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 06:50 am UTC

[info]kijikun
2009-08-12 08:54 pm UTC (link)
*face palms* I hate people.

Someone a few posts back promised me I could be an alien. I wish this to happen now. I'd even settle for being a skrull.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-12 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2009-08-12 08:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-08-13 05:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2009-08-13 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2009-08-13 02:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sionja, 2009-08-13 03:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ninwhore, 2009-08-13 11:01 am UTC

[info]damien
2009-08-12 09:06 pm UTC (link)
I went to an International School where pretty much EVERYONE was the child of someone working in the UN. This school was located outside of the US.

Does that mean that I think that anyone from my school has the right to claim to be colorblind? Hell fucking no. We held things like International Evening where everyone brought a typical dish from their culture and dressed up in the garb of their country. On Sri Lankan New Year, I went to school in a sari along with the girls from India and Bangladesh, since their New Year falls on the same day as Sri Lanka's.

If you go to an International School, you're completely missing the point if you end up colorblind. What should happen is that you get color-smart. Celebrate diversity instead of trying to squash everyone into the same shade of beige -- sure, the latter lets you say you're colorblind because all you see is beige but man, what a boring world to see.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-12 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-12 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mydemand, 2009-08-16 11:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-16 12:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mydemand, 2009-08-16 12:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-16 05:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]virgo, 2009-08-12 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-12 09:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-12 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iamnotyourmuse, 2009-08-12 09:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-12 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-16 03:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-16 11:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]finchbird, 2009-08-12 10:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-12 10:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]persona, 2009-08-12 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2009-08-12 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bandit, 2009-08-13 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-13 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sablemouse, 2009-08-13 04:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]demonoflight, 2009-08-13 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lysana, 2009-08-13 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tomato_ja_nai, 2009-08-14 06:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]quantumreality, 2009-08-17 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-17 12:57 am UTC

[info]alya1989262
2009-08-12 10:49 pm UTC (link)
In the second post, one commenter says this about Karnythia being so outspoken about race:
It's a very old tribal instinct for revenge. Doesn't matter the color involved or the creed.

I'm sure he'd have said the exact same thing about a white person!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2009-08-13 02:41 am UTC

[info]notjo
2009-08-12 10:50 pm UTC (link)
I think this is a really great comment from Sparkymonster and I quote it for great truth (and in case it magically disappears):

I would come to the conclusion that assuming someone is a criminal based on race is racist. Assuming someone may be criminal based on behaviors they display (which cross race) may actually be useful.

What you did was let your insistence that you ARE NOT RACIST override everything. You didn't treat the black couple like individuals and asses your feelings about the behavior based on that. Instead you treated them like faceless members of a group.

(Reply to this)


[info]esorlehcar
2009-08-12 10:55 pm UTC (link)
Is agilebrit a previous wankee? I recognize the name, but I'm not sure from where. Of course, given the linked comment, I suppose it's a good bet it's from RaceFail...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-12 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2009-08-12 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jrs1980, 2009-08-13 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2009-08-13 03:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2009-08-13 11:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2009-08-14 12:47 am UTC

[info]sparklepuss
2009-08-12 11:50 pm UTC (link)
Pardon me, I'm going to go weep for humanity now.

(Reply to this)


[info]frequentmouse
2009-08-13 12:00 am UTC (link)
Thisexchange</i> about the word "girl" makes me wonder why she is let out unattended.

(Reply to this)


[info]innocentsmith
2009-08-13 12:13 am UTC (link)
I might notice a person’s hair color, but I don’t care about it. Yet, in the days of the Saxons and Normans the rulers were prejudice against blond-haired folk. They would have thought of that as paramount. We don’t think of hair color as defining who we are any more. (Well, unless you are me…but more on that later.) In the future, when we are concerned about other issues, we won’t particularly notice skin color either.

...Bitch, are you for real?

I couldn't even make it though that first post. Self-congratulatory whittering in bad prose - remind me never to read anything this woman wrote.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rodo, 2009-08-13 02:09 am UTC
Sarcasm meter broken - [info]aliaras, 2009-08-13 11:49 pm UTC
Re: Sarcasm meter broken - [info]rodo, 2009-08-14 11:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-13 04:46 pm UTC

[info]stella_polaris
2009-08-13 12:30 am UTC (link)
I kinda get her point, except her point seems to be some kind of an ignorant, idiotic version it. AGHHHH.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 02:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-08-13 05:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 05:41 am UTC

[info]kalakagatha
2009-08-13 12:49 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I was reading that a lot of the morning. Well, that and the fail that was Kathryn Cramer moderating another panel on diversity at WorldCon. Eep.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2009-08-13 01:26 am UTC

[info]sunhawk
2009-08-13 01:10 am UTC (link)
For World Con, I was put on a diversity panel. I probably should have bowed out. I am against the idea of diversity as a political movement. Because I don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to racism and privilege.

There, fixed it for her. Holy stars, people make me want to stab things.

(Reply to this)


[info]come_love_sleep
2009-08-13 02:19 am UTC (link)
Land's sakes, finally. A woman who understands where I'm coming from. I forget about color all the time! I barely ever notice. I mean, I notice that that guy has slender hands, that girl has fantastic hair, but it might take me an instant to understand why they're studying me so coldly; I notice that really big dude looks a bit baffled when he looks at me and my boyfriend, and, why, it's easily a heartbeat or two before I remember--oh, yeah. That's right. My boyfriend is Korean, and I can mostly pass for white! I mean, I'm maybe not white enough for decent company, but white enough that if you put me next to someone entirely of a darker shade, I look white by comparison.

I forget, you see, I just plain forget, until somebody reminds me. I only remember again when I get spat at by angry Korean women, when people behind us in line for ice cream start murmuring in a language that I don't understand and Taesoo snarls back at them in Korean or Japanese and then won't tell me what they were saying. I forget, and then I get something like "Why's a girl with such a nice ass going out with a chink like that?" I remember when he starts going into the bodyguard position again, ready for trouble, when we have to walk through a clutch of fratboys; I remember when I get snarled at by pale old women of indeterminate ethnicity; I remember when we go out for food stuff and the cashier in one place glares at me (taking good Korean men! Cracker tramp) and the cashier in the next glares at him (uppity gook, what are you doing with a white woman?).

Why, sometimes I forget, in public, for a whole five or six minutes straight.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-13 02:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sablemouse, 2009-08-13 04:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2009-08-14 04:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2009-08-14 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-13 04:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2009-08-14 04:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shallow_kid, 2009-08-13 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2009-08-14 04:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-08-14 11:20 pm UTC

[info]dez_chan
2009-08-13 03:28 am UTC (link)
Is there an "opt out" or "unsubscribe" button for the human race? 'Cause seriously, she's making my species look bad.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2009-08-13 03:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 04:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dez_chan, 2009-08-13 04:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deliciouschaos, 2009-08-13 07:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2009-08-13 07:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deliciouschaos, 2009-08-13 07:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dez_chan, 2009-08-13 04:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deliciouschaos, 2009-08-13 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 04:10 am UTC
*sympathy pats* - [info]dez_chan, 2009-08-13 04:21 am UTC
Re: *sympathy pats* - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 04:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-13 04:21 am UTC

[info]sionja
2009-08-13 03:56 am UTC (link)
Her heidipology leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sunhawk, 2009-08-13 04:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2009-08-13 02:05 pm UTC

[info]kalakagatha
2009-08-13 04:22 am UTC (link)
via Kate Nepveu, Lamplighter's got a new apology up, and while I guess it's good that she appears to have learned something, the condescension with which she expresses it simultaneously makes me cringe and get angry all over again that this woman is actually a published author. What an incredible inability to either comprehend or utilize language.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-13 07:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2009-08-14 06:32 am UTC

[info]istaerlus
2009-08-13 04:24 am UTC (link)
I had to read arhyalon's quote at the top of the page three times before I figured out what was going on. It was so full of fail my brain didn't want to acknowledge it's existence.

(Reply to this)


[info]dana
2009-08-13 04:53 am UTC (link)
I actually didn't bother to read much of her post, because I know a lot of it would make me tired, but is she white? I'm asking because her icon is Indian, and that's her one and only icon.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-08-13 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dana, 2009-08-13 05:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 05:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-13 09:11 am UTC

[info]hallidae
2009-08-13 04:55 am UTC (link)
...Is that Aishwarya Rai as her default icon? Is she honest to god spouting all this idiotic, singularly white-privileged-naive bullshit with an Indian actress as her default? For some reason, that just enrages me more.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dana, 2009-08-13 05:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-13 12:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dana, 2009-08-13 01:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]txvoodoo, 2009-08-13 11:07 pm UTC

[info]frequentmouse
2009-08-13 05:49 am UTC (link)
Oh, jesus, one of the whinier voices in comments is on my flist.


(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-13 05:50 am UTC

[info]chikane
2009-08-13 08:36 am UTC (link)
Some people really need to understand that their perception isn't equal to reality as a whole.

(Reply to this)



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