Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



Solar ([info]solar_type_star) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2009-08-14 15:49:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Prominent gamer exhibits misogyny, news at 11
I was disheartened and surprised (naïve much?) to read this series of posts from the Penny Arcade guys, in which Gabe uses the excuse of his anxiety attacks to justify a good bunch of misogynistic clichés.

It all starts with an editorial by Tycho, in which he mentions that from time to time he feels fascinated with subcultures/ideologies with a dark side, like Scientology and, more recently, the "seduction community" (the one that spawns ridiculous douchebags like Mystery "The Pickup Artist").

Gabe responds with a post of his own:

I don't know, Love Systems doesn't seem so bad to me. It's really hard to talk to girls, and this is just helping guys with their confidence. Women are terrifying and strange, I don't see anything wrong with getting some advice.


And then, after Tycho responds to him:

I think you're being overly dramatic. Girls have been using their "feminine wiles" to manipulate men since the beginning of time. Do you really think the mind games girls play on guys are any better or worse than this stuff. The only difference is that this sort of thing comes naturally to women. Guys are in a tight spot because in very real terms, we have nothing they want. They on the other hand, have vaginas. They can make us do pretty much what ever they want. I don't see anything wrong with guys trying to learn some tricks of their own.


Up until this point, I sincerely thought he was joking, and taking the piss out of well-known sexist attitudes. But of course, that's because I credited him with a certain level of intelligence he might not possess. The next day, he posts this:

Wow, just fucking wow.

I decided to play devil's advocate yesterday with Tycho just because that's something I enjoy doing. I think in reality I fall somewhere in the middle of this argument but that's not as much fun. What I didn't expect was to get flooded with mail from guys thanking me for sticking up for this system because they use it. I also got my share of mail from angry girls but honestly I expected that. I made some pretty ridiculous exaggerations for the sake of a silly argument. Just like any time we exaggerate for the sake of a joke, we end up offending people who don't see the humor in it. (...)


From :D to D: in 0.3 sec.

At this point you can see Tycho back away slowly from the whole thing, cringing inwardly at his friend. It all ends with Gabe posting an apology in which he says that he didn't notice this flirting system was wrong, but now that he's learned more about it, he thinks it's not ok to use it. Notice that he never apologizes for the reductionist and misogynistic view of women and their history of relationships with men that he's been spewing to the gaming world at large from atop his soapbox.


(Post a new comment)


[info]justira
2009-08-14 03:54 pm UTC (link)
Well! At least-- Gabe might be making me cringe and want to explain a few details to him, I am kind of loving Tycho for what he says in response! (emphasis original)

I'm fairly certain the purpose of this course is to make you a better predator of women. Check out their offers of "in-field training," as though you were going to hunt antelopes from a jeep in the Goddamned Savannah.

and

I'm not sure the people who espouse these "love systems" or "dating sciences" want much to do with women outside of their role as the variable in some bizarre equation they're endlessly iterating.

This makes me feel slightly better.

Sidenote: hilariously, I knew some guys who were into that seduction thing. On the whole, I did not like them.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]solar_type_star, 2009-08-14 04:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-14 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-14 08:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eldritch, 2009-08-14 10:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eldritch, 2009-08-15 01:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aliaras, 2009-08-15 06:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eldritch, 2009-08-15 10:07 pm UTC

[info]lil_miss_stfu
2009-08-14 03:55 pm UTC (link)
Wow... just wow.

Also, maybe I'm weird, but I get a little irritated when men refer to women as 'girls' - especially in the context of picking them up.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-08-14 04:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gmth, 2009-08-14 04:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]persona, 2009-08-14 05:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]edgyspice, 2009-08-14 07:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]erototoxin, 2009-08-14 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2009-08-14 11:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-14 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2009-08-15 01:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-08-15 05:39 am UTC

[info]snarkhunter
2009-08-14 03:58 pm UTC (link)
I have anxiety problems. I have been in therapy for years to help me get over my fear of men.

And yet, somehow, I manage to refrain from declaring men a strange species who are out to use their "manly wiles" to manipulate or control or hurt me...

...DESPITE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF EVIDENCE IN THE FORM OF SHIT LIKE THIS.

(I don't really believe most men are out to do that. But sometimes...)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]solar_type_star, 2009-08-14 04:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-14 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2009-08-14 06:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-14 09:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2009-08-14 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]starlady42, 2009-08-14 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-08-15 02:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-08-14 05:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iamnotyourmuse, 2009-08-14 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]muppetfromhell, 2009-08-15 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]muppetfromhell, 2009-08-15 02:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iamnotyourmuse, 2009-08-15 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-08-15 12:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-08-15 12:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-16 02:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-16 02:38 pm UTC

[info]sablemouse
2009-08-14 03:59 pm UTC (link)
I really despise the term "feminine wiles". It makes me want to reach through the screen and smack the person using it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]solar_type_star, 2009-08-14 04:09 pm UTC

[info]jkefka
2009-08-14 04:07 pm UTC (link)
You know, the thing that really irks me about the whole "seduction system" is that a lot of it consists of carefully aimed attacks on the self-esteem of either their targets or their competition. It's a strange little paradox, advising you to appear confident by resorting to the methods of the deeply insecure. It also rubs me the wrong way with sandpaper, but that's another issue entirely.

As for Gabe, eh. By the very last post at the end he seems to get it, kind of, and he presents his real view of women (or at least a retraction of his earlier view) at the end of the post you quote here. He also uses that "soapbox" to note that the system is sleazy and to say specifically that they don't endorse it. I give him credit for trying, though yes, I would have liked to have seen him spend more time talking about the negative view of women this system uses than the system and its relationship to anxious men.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2009-08-14 05:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2009-08-14 05:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jkefka, 2009-08-14 06:55 pm UTC

[info]t_boy
2009-08-14 04:35 pm UTC (link)
Funny, I remember talking about this to one of my friends.

I get the basis of what Gabe is trying to say. I mean, for a lot of nerdy, socially awkward guys (well, like me), women are a great mystery -- a mystery that many nerd guys feel like they need to figure out, like a puzzle or a videogame.

What you need is a course or some kind of way of pulling those guys away from that kind of paradigm. What you need are social skill classes, and "how not to be douchebag" classes. You need to get them to link the feelings of other people who are not like them to their own experiences, and have them realize that hey, you know that puzzle / mystery metaphor you used? Was referring to an actual human being.

Seduction classes are terrible for this. I remember reading one of the books that kind of spawned this trend, and I remember being skeeved and not wanting to do the things it asked but not knowing why. Hindsight's 20/20, I suppose.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-14 04:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-14 05:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2009-08-15 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]muppetfromhell, 2009-08-15 02:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-15 04:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aliaras, 2009-08-15 06:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dez_chan, 2009-08-14 05:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-14 05:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-14 05:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notarose, 2009-08-14 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-15 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sizer, 2009-08-15 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-15 04:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-15 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-16 12:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-08-15 05:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-15 06:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-15 12:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2009-08-15 04:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-16 04:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2009-08-14 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2009-08-14 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-08-15 02:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-15 06:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-16 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]erototoxin, 2009-08-14 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-14 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]erototoxin, 2009-08-15 12:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-15 12:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]erototoxin, 2009-08-15 01:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-17 09:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-08-15 02:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-15 03:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-08-15 06:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-08-15 06:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]quantumreality, 2009-08-17 12:30 am UTC

[info]chikane
2009-08-14 04:37 pm UTC (link)
Guys are in a tight spot because in very real terms, we have nothing they want.

Well, you might not, but last that I checked, straight (and bisexual) women are often quite fond of non-asshole men, for a variety of reasons, including sex and intimacy.

I never understood this pseudo argument. But hey, what do I know, I'm no guy, and thus lack the detailed understanding about female sexuality that only a straight guy could have.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-14 05:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]persephonea, 2009-08-14 05:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-14 06:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]persephonea, 2009-08-14 06:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-08-14 06:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]persephonea, 2009-08-14 06:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-15 07:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-14 06:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-08-14 06:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lysana, 2009-08-14 09:28 pm UTC

[info]mmanurere
2009-08-14 05:14 pm UTC (link)
Am I a bad person for wanting to learn these so-called "seduction" techniques so I can try them out on misogynistic straight men and see how they react?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-14 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2009-08-14 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aliaras, 2009-08-14 08:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-08-15 12:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-14 11:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_padfoot, 2009-08-14 11:26 pm UTC

[info]persephonea
2009-08-14 06:01 pm UTC (link)
What I didn't expect was to get flooded with mail from guys thanking me for sticking up for this system because they use it. I also got my share of mail from angry girls but honestly I expected that. I made some pretty ridiculous exaggerations for the sake of a silly argument. Just like any time we exaggerate for the sake of a joke, we end up offending people who don't see the humor in it.

Huh. See, when I read that last sentence, and then read the first one, it's like...dude, don't you get it? That first sentence is exactly why women don't find this stuff funny. :|

(Reply to this)


[info]innocentsmith
2009-08-14 06:09 pm UTC (link)
The bit that bewilders me is when he says that before dating his wife, he had never talked to a girl for more than a few minutes.

Was he raised in the Republic of Gilead? Or the compound of some other cult that practiced complete social separation of males and females? Is he a time traveller from ancient Scythia, the son of a one-breasted warrior woman, abandoned to fend for himself as a child before being collected and raised to maturity by his brothers, who see women only once a year and only for one purpose if you know what I mean and I think you do.

Because if so, he's got my sympathies, but if not - surely he's had some sort of conversation with envaginated personages? No mother, no grandmothers, no sisters, girl cousins? No classmates, no neighbors, no coworkers, no friends or friends of friends or girlfriends of friends? Really? And I suppose it's definitely unpossible that anyone he might have met online was ever female.

Oh wait, we're using the special definition of "girls," as meaning "vaguely human-shaped beings with whom I wish to engage in coitus." Obviously that would be a completely different species.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sgtgeorgecarter, 2009-08-14 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2009-08-15 07:53 pm UTC

[info]blue_linnet
2009-08-14 07:10 pm UTC (link)
This stuff is severely creepy and baffling. The idea of treating women as a totally separate species is just...what. And the 'how to pick up women' (or the converse, 'how to get a man') is never going to work because *everyone is different*...how the hell can there be one overriding technique that will always work on everyone? What attracts me and interests me is a total turnoff to my best friend, for instance!

The whole thing just gives me a creepy icky feeling. Like looking at a person like a machine... 'push this button, get this reward'. And when you have that 'reward'...so you either, what? Pick up a girl and sleep with her? Or have a girlfriend that you got with a 'technique' rather than because you actually like each other.

Also, the idea that women have this arcane power over men is insane. Either that or I missed Woman Class the day they were handing out 'How to be Manipulative' books, since god knows I suck at it. I had a guy I know start telling me how being manipulative came so much easier to girls than guys, and I just...don't get that mindset at all. It is like those girls who say 'Oh, I hate other women! Men are such straight shooters, you know what you get, but women backstab all the time.' Riiight.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]coffee_mug, 2009-08-14 09:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_linnet, 2009-08-14 10:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-14 11:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2009-08-15 07:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-16 12:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaesa, 2009-08-18 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaesa, 2009-08-18 03:49 am UTC

[info]hyeri
2009-08-14 07:20 pm UTC (link)
I decided to play devil's advocate yesterday with Tycho just because that's something I enjoy doing.

Excluding the rest of his statement, this says to me 'it was all a social experiment' (or something along those lines) and that he didn't expect to actually get called out for his ridiculous behaviour, least of all by Tycho.

Fail....

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-08-14 08:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hyeri, 2009-08-15 12:16 am UTC

[info]deadwood
2009-08-14 09:45 pm UTC (link)
This is something I have trouble with. I am female, geeky, and socially awkward. At the age of twenty, I've never even been on a date. And I don't really know why, although I have all these theories. I guess I missed out on all those feminine wiles people joke about.

The media and such think it's easy for women to get men just because they have a vagina and that's all a man really wants. My experiences have told me that this is apparently not true. Srsly dude? Then what am I doing wrong?

tl;dr: I have self-confidence problems.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-15 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-15 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2009-08-15 01:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]muppetfromhell, 2009-08-15 02:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2009-08-15 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hyaenid, 2009-08-15 02:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2009-08-15 04:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-15 04:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2009-08-15 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-16 12:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-15 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-17 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gold_bluepoint, 2009-08-15 02:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]angelan, 2009-08-15 09:46 pm UTC
Ellsmere icon! <3 - [info]gold_bluepoint, 2009-08-15 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dana, 2009-08-15 03:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2009-08-15 05:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2009-08-15 06:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tomato_ja_nai, 2009-08-16 05:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-16 12:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tomato_ja_nai, 2009-08-16 10:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-16 12:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-16 12:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-16 12:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-16 04:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-16 04:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-16 04:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-16 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-16 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-16 08:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]irised, 2009-08-19 09:04 am UTC

[info]rogue
2009-08-14 09:58 pm UTC (link)
Suffering from anxiety myself, I've always really liked Penny Arcade, and have always really appreciated the way Gabe has handled it and approached it. Reading all of this as it went down left me extremely disappointed. Part of me thinks that maybe I shouldn't be surprised, and that's the worst part. Why should I have to expect every single goddamn outlet for nerdy hobbies be steeped in sexism? Thanks for keeping the shitty bar at the same shitty height it's always been, I guess.

(Reply to this)


[info]gold_bluepoint
2009-08-14 11:53 pm UTC (link)
Protip to the dudes with social anxiety that prevents them from talking to the beautiful, unapproachable women of Great Mystery: maybe you'd have an easier time relating to them if you started thinking of them as fellow geeks and humans instead of as Strange Alien Beings or prizes to be pursued and won.

"But every guy has seen a girl who has taken his breath away, or been on a date that didn't end with a comic strip proposing marriage to her through his alter ego, a date where the girl decided, inexplicably, that she just wanted to be friends."

Something about that "inexplicably" really sticks in my craw - because how dare a woman not be attracted to you when you're attracted to HER!

//*wipes*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-15 12:27 am UTC
oh so much bitterness - [info]gold_bluepoint, 2009-08-15 02:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]weaselistic, 2009-08-15 11:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gold_bluepoint, 2009-08-16 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]weaselistic, 2009-08-16 02:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-16 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyvyola, 2009-08-17 02:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-17 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-16 03:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaesa, 2009-08-18 04:19 am UTC

[info]eleutheria
2009-08-15 01:32 am UTC (link)
I'm actually a little irritated at Tycho. His head is in the right place, but on Ambien =/= "unconscious". And I'm frankly angry at the suggestion that I can't consent because I take it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-08-15 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-08-15 02:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]atdelphi, 2009-08-15 07:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-08-16 04:54 am UTC

[info]funwithrage
2009-08-15 02:46 am UTC (link)
Ew.

I hate, most of all, the implicit assumption that girls--and especially geek girls--are supposed to somehow feel sorry for guys like Gabe, because the vast cold unfeeling world has blah blah blah purple lake of loneliness blah blah bad high school experience, and we therefore somehow owe them sex or time or putting up with their close-talking stalky bullshit. Whatever. There are solutions to all of the above.

1) Get therapy; take medication. Tits don't count. If you want someone to give a shit about your problems, you can damn well pay them $100 an hour.

2) Talk to women. How? Like you'd talk to people, because women are people, and do not give me John Gray bullshit about how we're sooooo different. If women don't like you, it's probably because *people* don't like you, but you don't notice it unless you're trying to get laid.
2a) Relatedly, develop some goddamn social skills. If you have a friend who seems successful with members of the opposite sex (or who gets along well with strangers) ask them to be honest and tell you what you're doing wrong. If you *don't*...well, that's probably part of the problem right there. Ask your mother or something.

3) Learn to masturbate. Stop thinking that getting laid, or dating, or whatever, will totally validate you and solve all your problems. To put it in your language: "Having a Girlfriend" is not an Epic Destiny.

But really? I don't feel sorry for you. I'm not here to comfort you because you got beaten up in high school--so did I, and so did all of my friends--or you've never had a girlfriend. Scared of me? You should be, but not because I'm a mysterious girl with a mysterious cunt; be scared because, if you start pulling the Mopey McEmo act around me, I will kick your ass until your grandchildren have footprints.

/rant

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]gold_bluepoint, 2009-08-15 03:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-08-15 04:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_padfoot, 2009-08-15 04:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-08-15 04:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-08-15 06:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-15 07:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2009-08-15 09:04 am UTC

[info]greenling
2009-08-15 04:37 am UTC (link)
How many girls did YOU have at your gaming table?

Uhm, somewhere between half and the majority of the group for most of them. Most of the tabletop communities I hang around are also pretty evenly gender-balanced.

I'd almost say a great piece of advice to these guys is "learn to play White Wolf", but that doesn't explain, say, the girl in the homemade Saeder-Krupp Staff shirt. There are a shitload of girls in these hobbies- you just don't see them for some goddamned reason I can't even explain by saying you're misogynist, because it's not like half of the girls I know are exactly paragons of feminism.

So uh, yeah.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blue_linnet, 2009-08-15 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charamei, 2009-08-15 11:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-16 02:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sukeban, 2009-08-19 12:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2009-08-16 11:07 am UTC

[info]elfy
2009-08-15 05:02 am UTC (link)
From the email Tycho posted (emphasis mine):

The main reason why assholes get girls is not because girls are just dying to be abused and ignored-- although some are for whatever fault of upbringing or genetics-- but because women, especially beautiful women, hate the weakness implied when a man bends over backward to impress her.

While the rest of us fugly bitches are just glad that a man is paying us any kind of attention. ;______;

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]innocentsmith, 2009-08-15 05:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2009-08-15 05:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2009-08-15 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2009-08-21 10:23 pm UTC

[info]velvet_mace
2009-08-15 05:04 am UTC (link)
I'm annoyed most by the idea that men have nothing that women want, but women have vaginas therefore no matter what they do men will go along.

It's stupid and wrong on two levels:

1) The hell women don't want anything from men. We want them very much not to act like douchebags. We want them to treat us like friends. We want them to appreciate when we fucking do things for them -- things other than fucking.

2) Men won't do anything for a random vagina. Men are in fact very picky. They want young attractive women who have as much going for them as possible. And yeah they want sex, but ordinary give and take and compromise does not constitute being a slave.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-08-15 05:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_linnet, 2009-08-15 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-16 02:38 am UTC

[info]sandglass
2009-08-15 06:09 am UTC (link)
Remember, this is also the guy who bragged about Wizards of the Coast (bless their hearts) getting mad because their podcast contained multiple references to rape, including labeling rape as a "minor action".

Tycho seems like a really cool guy, and he's certainly the reason I keep coming to Penny Arcade, but he has really shitty taste in friends.

(Reply to this)


[info]dreamer_marie
2009-08-15 10:37 am UTC (link)
Maybe it's me, but I think the turnaround Gabe does at the end of the exchange is pretty funny. Who's with me that his wife read his posts and yelled at him for what he wrote?

(Reply to this)


[info]zellieh
2009-08-16 03:52 pm UTC (link)
I hate those schemes because they strike me as being zero sum games, or at least very much encouraging a zero sum worldview in the participants.

Human relationships =/= zero sum games. It's not about winners and losers; it's not even about competition. Healthy relationships should, by definition, be win/win situations, and therefore, also by definition, non zero sum games.

The more complex situations become - and human relationships are pretty damn complex - the more we rely on interdependence, and so the better off we are if we all win.

Also, 'it was a social experiment' + 'it was just a joke' = MAJOR FAIL.

(Reply to this)


[info]elfwreck
2009-08-17 02:38 am UTC (link)
The problem with sites like Love Systems being discovered by geeks?

They work. Sort of. There are indeed methods guys can use to get laid, fairly often, by moderately-to-fairly attractive women. (There are no systems that work on woman of his specific choice, but one assumes that if he's learning tips from a site like that, he's not concerned with any one, particular woman.) When a guy is just bar-crawling, looking to get laid, there are certain "tricks" he can use. And it works for that.

Problem is, most geek guys don't want to get laid. They want to get LOVED. They want to be cherished and respected (and laid) and have fascinating intellectual conversations on topics of their interest, and have someone fetch soda for them when they're coding... and they want this without being willing to provide care, respect, scintillating conversations on topics of HER interest, and washing the damn dishes.

Plenty of women like gamer geeks. (I speak from over 30 years' experience as a female gamer geek.) They like sex with gamer geeks. What they don't like is whacko possessiveness and headgames and being treated like their IQ dropped 30 points because they deigned to allow a penis near them.

The problem isn't with "dating sites" that treat women like prey. There are women who like that game. (There's a problem in them, but that's not part of *this* problem.) The problem is guys who think that game will get them results that aren't part of the game at all.

You want to kill dragons and own a castle? Play D&D. You want to own a series of hotels and collect extreme rents? Play Monopoly. You want to get laid and have fun dates? Play "Love Systems." You want a respectful relationship with a woman who considers you her peer, not her toy for the weekend? Ah, that one doesn't come with standard rule package; you'll have to actually put some thought into the exact situation.

My issue isn't with the guys who want to get laid. I like sex; I occasionally like no-strings sex just for fun, with friends. My problems are with with the guys who *say* they want to get laid, and actually want a fuck of a lot more, that they're not willing to work for.

There's a lot more men than women who can't tell the difference between "friends with benefits" and "soul mates."

(Reply to this)


redwarrior
2009-08-21 10:20 pm UTC (link)
This attitude is why I'm gay.

I'm a conscientious objector to all of this shit.

(Reply to this)


 
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map