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Like a book club, except with more sex! ([info]notjo) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2009-08-21 12:45:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:another reason to hate people, sure we don't need no feminism

Victim Blaming: Canadian Style!
Carleton University Blames Rape Victim For Being Raped

Jane Doe believes the University did not take sufficient responsibility in ensuring the safety of it's female students, and sued the University. The court case was recently settled. In the midst of the case, the University stated, “the victims injuries were caused or contributed to by the plaintiff, through her own negligence. She was not keeping a proper look out for her own safety.”


Carleton University (in Canada) does not have a Sexual Assault Center.

Link is to a summary of an interview that is in audio. I haven't listened to the audio.

(Post a new comment)


[info]ashu
2009-08-21 04:54 pm UTC (link)
... No words just. *headdesk headdesk headdesk*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ashu
2009-08-21 04:55 pm UTC (link)
*herp* sorry for the double post as well. *robust servers are robust*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]talec
2009-08-22 08:57 pm UTC (link)
...Fellow Rockman fan! :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ashu, 2009-08-23 09:47 pm UTC

[info]harrylovesron
2009-08-21 05:05 pm UTC (link)
I- what?!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]tehrin
2009-08-21 11:56 pm UTC (link)
Seriously.

It is a good time to break out the "Azula wants to smack a dumbass" icons.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lady_ganesh
2009-08-21 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Oh, look, a pattern.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]vitalitat
2009-08-21 07:17 pm UTC (link)
:((

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]atdrake
2009-08-21 06:18 pm UTC (link)
Damn, that's awful, and I hope that woman got plenty of money out of the settlement, because it doesn't look like she's getting justice, or even respect, from the stupid uni. She should sue them a second time for slander.

But Carleton University in general seems made of fail. Remember when their student council cancelled their long-running cystic fibrosis fundraiser because some idiot convinced them that CF “affects only white people, and primarily men”, therefore they should drop support, and some other idiots believed him?

I hope the backlash from this drops their future enrollment through the floor.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lady_ganesh
2009-08-22 03:18 am UTC (link)
I had forgotten that was them! Holy ick.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sisterelwood
2009-08-21 06:19 pm UTC (link)
How DARE a woman think she should be able to walk down the street without constantly looking over her shoulder! She's just ASKING for it.

*seethes*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ahiru
2009-08-21 08:25 pm UTC (link)
I bet she was wearing a tank top too. Or maybe even a--gasp!-- miniskirt. Clearly she was just asking for it, leaving her burqa at home like that.

*headdesk*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sneer, 2009-08-22 04:10 am UTC

[info]the__ivorytower
2009-08-21 06:56 pm UTC (link)
Am I ever glad I don't hang out there any more, nor my friend.

(Reply to this)


[info]cassildra
2009-08-21 09:48 pm UTC (link)
*RAGEY RAGE OF CAPSLOCKY MCRAGEISM*

(Reply to this)


redwarrior
2009-08-21 10:09 pm UTC (link)
What the everloving fuck.

*smacks Carleton*

(Reply to this)


tree
2009-08-21 11:26 pm UTC (link)
What hurts my head the most in any "victim's fault" bullshit is that it stems from the assumption that an atmosphere of crime is the default situation which we then have to adapt to - an assumption, therefore, in which the responsibility of protection is primarily ours alone - instead of crime being a situation that needs to be prevented by education, laws, etcetera.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]snarkhunter
2009-08-21 11:41 pm UTC (link)
No number of laws are going to prevent crime. Crime will always, always happen, just as it has always happened, and it's foolish to believe otherwise.

I think we *do* have to live as though the expectation of crime is the default state, b/c it IS. We might be able to change that through education and better resources and less poverty, for example, but we can never get rid of it.

All of that said, the victim-blaming is still bullshit. Even if the expectation of crime is the default state, it's still NEVER the victim's fault.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-22 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 01:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-22 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-22 02:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-22 02:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-22 04:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-22 05:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2009-08-22 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-22 06:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2009-08-22 08:51 am UTC
Apologies for the Teal Deer - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-22 01:19 pm UTC
Re: Apologies for the Teal Deer - tree, 2009-08-22 02:38 pm UTC
Re: Apologies for the Teal Deer - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 04:10 pm UTC
Re: Apologies for the Teal Deer - [info]sarracenia, 2009-08-22 08:56 pm UTC
Re: Apologies for the Teal Deer - [info]greenling, 2009-08-23 12:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2009-08-22 03:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2009-08-24 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-22 02:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-22 02:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-22 02:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-22 02:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2009-08-22 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-22 03:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-22 03:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2009-08-22 03:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-22 04:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 04:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 04:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2009-08-22 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2009-08-24 05:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-22 03:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2009-08-22 03:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-22 04:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2009-08-23 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-23 04:55 am UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 04:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-22 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-23 04:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-23 03:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-23 04:34 pm UTC
Augh, server! - tree, 2009-08-23 04:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 04:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-22 04:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-22 05:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 05:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-22 05:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-22 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-22 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2009-08-23 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-23 03:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-23 08:43 am UTC
apologies in advance for being a bore - tree, 2009-08-23 01:31 pm UTC
Re: apologies in advance for being a bore - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-23 02:28 pm UTC
Re: apologies in advance for being a bore - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-23 03:31 pm UTC
Re: apologies in advance for being a bore - tree, 2009-08-23 04:48 pm UTC
Re: apologies in advance for being a bore - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-23 04:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-23 02:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-23 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-23 11:20 pm UTC
teal deer like whoa...working out confusion - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-22 10:07 pm UTC
No tl;dr from me - I read and I am thankful! - tree, 2009-08-22 11:50 pm UTC
Re: teal deer like whoa...working out confusion - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-08-23 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-23 12:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-23 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-23 02:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2009-08-23 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2009-08-23 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-23 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-23 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-23 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-23 03:59 pm UTC

[info]bleachedclouds
2009-08-21 11:56 pm UTC (link)
Now, now I'm sure they'd say the exact same thing if some grieving parents tried to sue after their child was murdered!

Oh no wait, no, no they wouldn't.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-23 02:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goddessleila, 2009-08-23 03:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bleachedclouds, 2009-08-23 11:04 pm UTC

[info]honorh
2009-08-22 03:03 am UTC (link)
What, do they have Marriott's law firm working for them?

(Reply to this)


[info]darkschneider
2009-08-22 03:15 am UTC (link)
Okay, World, it's time you and I had a talk.

Because really, I don't like the fact that I've seen two ridiculous court statements that involve blaming rape victims in only two weeks.

Please tell me, dear World, what these women could have done to avoid being raped. Please, tell me why they need to go to hell and back and be victimised all over again, just because you think they didn't do everything in their power to avoid being attacked. Please, tell me what the woman who was protecting her children should have done to fight back. Please, tell me how the university student could have better defended herself, in a place where she should have been safe. Please, just explain these simple things to me.

What's that? You don't have an explanation? And these things are not that simple?

Huh. You don't say.

Maybe, it's because we live in a society where sometimes, you can't protect yourself. Sometimes, the attacker is a friend, a lover, a nieghbor, a relative, or a parent. Sometimes, the attacker is a complete stranger. And every time, every situation is different. The move that saves one person might kill another. Punching the man with a gun could give you a chance to escape. It could also cause him to shoot you.

How can a person keep a proper look out for their own safety in a world where sometimes, bad things happen, and you're overpowered and there's nothing you can do? It is never the victim's fault, even if she was raped while wearing a short skirt. Women are raped every day in nun habits, in dresses, in pants, in swimsuits, in pyjamas, and in business suits. The victim's can be young and beautiful, or old and feeble. The only constant is that these women were all sexually attacked, they should all get justice, and their attackers should all be punished. The only person to blame for a rape is the rapist.

World, I know you want to believe that "if I don't ______, then I won't be _______." I know you don't want to believe that sometimes, bad things happen to good people. But World, if you keep believing this, people will continue to suffer. Rapists will continue to walk for their crimes because "oh, she consented by going out to drink with him" or "they were married, so he couldn't have raped her." Victims will go to sleep every night haunted by the thought that maybe it really was their fault and they didn't try hard enough to stop it.

And that is never okay.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-22 04:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacelogic, 2009-08-22 05:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadrose, 2009-08-23 07:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-23 08:22 am UTC

[info]kelmendi
2009-08-22 03:58 am UTC (link)
The thing that's especially maddening is that Carlton *in no way had to go there.* What's wrong with defending the university by saying "We regret that this occurred, and our sympathies are with Ms. Doe, but there was simply no way we could have predicted or prevented her assault." Depending on the details, it may or may not be *true*, but it has the advantage of not making them look like utter assholes.

"It was her own fault" is a *lousy* defense. It makes the person using it look like a misogynist weasel, and it sure as hell doesn't go over well with anyone sane who hears it. Which leads me to the depressing conclusion that people use it because they actually believe it. Fuckheads.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]warchio, 2009-08-22 10:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-22 01:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mary_mac, 2009-08-22 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-22 03:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]warchio, 2009-08-23 12:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-23 10:15 am UTC

[info]sequinedlizard
2009-08-22 04:33 am UTC (link)
I get it, I do. Being raped or assaulted is scary, it's scary to think about happening to you or anyone you care about. And no, you can't let that fear control you.

And yes, it is easier to say "Well, you shouldn't dress that way" or "You shouldn't drink at parties" or "You should take self defense classes" or "You shouldn't walk alone." It is, it really really is. Because if that's all it takes, then magically you or your loved ones are safe because they're following the rules.

But rapists don't follow the rules, that's the problem. People can get raped regardless of what they're wearing. People can get raped by people they've known and trusted all their lives. Self-defense instructors can be using the classes to get people to trust them and then rape someone. There are no rules. And that's scary. But just because it's scary doesn't mean that someone gets to give the dude that punched me in the face, blinded me, then raped me a free pass because my work shirt was tight. The fact that I'm a large strong woman doesn't give them a free pass because obviously I could have beaten up anyone. The fact that I'm ugly and must want sex but can only get it if someone else wants it doesn't give them a free pass. The fact they're attractive and "don't need to rape" doesn't get them a free pass.

It doesn't work that way. I wish it did - I wish there were rules that worked that way.

But it doesn't.

Yes, there are things we can do to minimize rape happening. But it's going to take a lot longer and involve a lot more work, education, and change than just saying "Don't dress provocatively" or give some list of bullshit panaceas.

Or people could just, y'know, not rape others. Blaming them for raping sounds much better than blaming the person that was raped. Just sayin'.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-22 03:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sequinedlizard, 2009-08-22 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-22 04:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sequinedlizard, 2009-08-22 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-08-24 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-22 07:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sequinedlizard, 2009-08-22 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-22 08:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sequinedlizard, 2009-08-22 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2009-08-22 11:47 pm UTC

[info]brennalarose
2009-08-22 07:21 am UTC (link)
Jesus Christ, it's an epidemic of fail and stupid!

(Reply to this)


[info]willywanka
2009-08-22 04:53 pm UTC (link)
There is a post up about it at the Carleton U livejournal community: http://community.livejournal.com/carletonu/932303.html

Warning - there are blaming the victim comments in that post.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2009-08-22 05:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-22 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-08-22 08:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2009-08-22 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shivi, 2009-08-23 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2009-08-24 02:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2009-08-23 07:31 pm UTC

[info]faultypremise
2009-08-22 07:06 pm UTC (link)
If you can't say 'The rapist is an asshat who needs to be locked up for his crime' without saying 'But the victim really shouldn't have worn that/done that/acted that way/gone there' then... Well really, what do you say to someone that ignorant other than SHUT THE FUCK UP?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-08-22 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-22 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-08-22 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-22 09:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-22 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-08-23 03:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faultypremise, 2009-08-23 10:11 pm UTC

[info]aliaras
2009-08-24 07:08 am UTC (link)
Realize it's a bit late now, but I just saw this link today, in which a woman science professor is awesome on this subject.

(Reply to this)

  
   
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