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Like a book club, except with more sex! ([info]notjo) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2009-09-03 17:10:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Dangerous
Entry tags:another reason to hate people, doubleplusungood, godwin weeps, gop: not only evil but stupid, iokiyar, jesus wept, politics, wtf?

Shorter Pat Buchanan: The Holocaust is Poland's Fault
Did Hitler Want War?

Comes the response: The war guarantee was not about Danzig, or even about Poland. It was about the moral and strategic imperative “to stop Hitler” after he showed, by tearing up the Munich pact and Czechoslovakia with it, that he was out to conquer the world. And this Nazi beast could not be allowed to do that.

If true, a fair point. Americans, after all, were prepared to use atom bombs to keep the Red Army from the Channel. But where is the evidence that Adolf Hitler, whose victims as of March 1939 were a fraction of Gen. Pinochet’s, or Fidel Castro’s, was out to conquer the world?

....

Because Hitler wanted to end the war in 1940, almost two years before the trains began to roll to the camps.

Hitler had never wanted war with Poland, but an alliance with Poland such as he had with Francisco Franco’s Spain, Mussolini’s Italy, Miklos Horthy’s Hungary and Father Jozef Tiso’s Slovakia.


Chewed up and spat out at I Read Pat Buchanan’s Column On Hitler And My Eyes Are Bleeding

This is the kind of appalling historical piece that leaves me thinking that I’ve fallen through into a bizarro world, and wondering what on the earth Buchanan thought the point was? To rehabilitate Hitler? To excoriate those uncooperative Poles?

He’s not even particularly good at it.


All I can think of is is this: If Hitler isn't the bad evil man that history has made him out to be, does this mean all the comparisons of Obama to Hitler mean Obama = Good?

Montreal Day 3 - 4 019



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[info]queencallipygos
2009-09-03 09:33 pm UTC (link)
Fortunately, it seems that Pat is taking a good drubbing in the comments. One response, from a commenter in Poland, began: "dear mr. Buchanan -- I don't know who you are, or what you want, or what you do in life..."

"....You're a lucky man, sir," I thought, when I read that.

(Reply to this)


[info]dejla
2009-09-03 09:40 pm UTC (link)
Pat Buchanan definitely comes from BizarroWorld. You can't logically argue with someone wearing that thick of a set of blinders.

(Reply to this)


[info]blue_penguin
2009-09-03 09:51 pm UTC (link)
Regarding that sign at the end of your post, there... correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Canada, in fact, have socialized medicine? And as such, shouldn't even the opponents of that system have realized by now that it does not actually result in Nazi-esque death camps? Or am I expecting too much of people?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]persona, 2009-09-03 10:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-09-03 11:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2009-09-04 01:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-09-05 12:18 am UTC

[info]guillemette
2009-09-03 10:29 pm UTC (link)
I`m a historian, why cannot I get used to people saying stuff like this? OH, WAIT.
>_<;;; *pours self a glass of wine*

(Reply to this)


[info]tehrin
2009-09-03 10:31 pm UTC (link)
Work camps were around since 1933 in Germany, starting with Dachau. Camps created for the explicit purpose of killing did not technically come about until 1942, though plenty were still being tortured, killed, or died of other causes in the work camps before that.

On the plus side, things like this are probably the exact reason that Pat will never be elected to office. Hitler didn't want to start a war! He just wanted to "cleanse" Europe and invade other countries to expand Germany's borders!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2009-09-04 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]abharding, 2009-09-04 02:44 am UTC

[info]etcetera_cat
2009-09-03 10:33 pm UTC (link)
Some of the commentators (the tl;dr trollishness of 'Nathan' in particular) are making my head hurt D:

(Reply to this)


[info]pathology_doc
2009-09-03 11:11 pm UTC (link)
When I was working in Accident & Emergency, one of the senior docs there said of seeing psych patients:

"If you walk out of that interview [at its conclusion: PD] wondering whether you're crazy, you're not. They are."

Reading that gave me a similar feeling.

From a purely military perspective, Hitler was no more than the German Napoleon 140 years on. It's the things he had his countrymen do in places like Auschwitz and Dachau that justifiably and compulsorily raise him from merely megalomanic to truly evil, and remove any ability of any sane person to admire him the way Napoleon is admired.

(Reply to this)


[info]radiotrash
2009-09-03 11:16 pm UTC (link)
As a person whose entire family is Polish and who had family memebers in Auschwitz that thankfully lived to tell about it? I say: FUCK YOU PAT.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2009-09-04 01:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]radiotrash, 2009-09-04 05:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pariforma, 2009-09-04 02:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2009-09-05 02:29 am UTC

[info]cirisse
2009-09-03 11:24 pm UTC (link)
This comment was gold:
Why did he start the war with no surface fleet, no troop transports and only 29 oceangoing submarines?

Because he did not have to sail to Poland.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evening_rose, 2009-09-04 04:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dez_chan, 2009-09-04 04:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evening_rose, 2009-09-04 04:53 am UTC

[info]xero_sky
2009-09-04 12:17 am UTC (link)
But where is the evidence that Adolf Hitler, whose victims as of March 1939 were a fraction of Gen. Pinochet’s, or Fidel Castro’s, was out to conquer the world?

Maybe the part where he said so? Repeatedly? Dumbasses.

Hitler had never wanted war with Poland, but an alliance with Poland such as he had with Francisco Franco’s Spain, Mussolini’s Italy, Miklos Horthy’s Hungary and Father Jozef Tiso’s Slovakia.

Funny that he doesn't mention Hitler's pact with Stalin, who also invaded Poland that same month. The pact spelled out exactly what parts of Poland each side would get.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-09-04 12:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2009-09-04 01:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2009-09-04 07:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2009-09-05 02:31 am UTC

[info]doomsday
2009-09-04 01:10 am UTC (link)
I am going to read this aloud to my grandmother, without telling her the author until I finish and hear her reaction (which I'm sure will be that whoever wrote it is delusional). You see, she watches Pat Buchanan on The McLaughlin Group every Sunday and insists that I must be confusing him with Pat Robertson when I tell her that he's an antisemitic, Nazi-sympathizing, Religious Right whack job, because Pat Buchanan is always so reasonable and well informed!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2009-09-04 02:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2009-09-04 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2009-09-04 04:31 am UTC

[info]the__ivorytower
2009-09-04 01:41 am UTC (link)
*rubs eyes* *frequently*

(Reply to this)


[info]sisterelwood
2009-09-04 02:00 am UTC (link)
What? So the Polish invited the Nazis in then??? They came in an army- that's an invasion and most nations tend to, oh I dunno, FIGHT BACK AGAINST THOSE.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]darlas_mom, 2009-09-04 03:45 pm UTC

[info]bleachedclouds
2009-09-04 02:13 am UTC (link)
Riiiight....

Anyway, even if you sustained a head injury and believed Hitler didn't want to invade anything (even though, expansion of Germany to give German people more 'living space' was a major foundation of Nazi-ism...) eh.. There was Jewish and other 'undersirable' people within Germany, it's hardly as if if he hadn't invaded Poland no one would have died...

(Reply to this)


[info]tintin
2009-09-04 02:13 am UTC (link)
What the hell did I just read??

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]persona, 2009-09-04 03:38 am UTC

[info]veleda_k
2009-09-04 02:44 am UTC (link)
Hey, if Poland didn't want to be invaded, it shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt.

Some of those comments make me want to bash my brains out. No, Buchanan isn't racist, he just thinks that slavery was the best thing ever to happen to Black people. I've noticed that many Republicans are always eager to assert that it's not that the Republican party is bigoted, it's just fringe lunatics. (From keeping up with the news, it seems like the Republican party has an awful lot of fringe.) This excuse works better if you don't jump in to defend said lunatics. Just a thought.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]etcetera_cat, 2009-09-04 02:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2009-09-04 03:00 pm UTC

[info]rhiannonmr
2009-09-04 03:14 am UTC (link)
Well it IS Pat Buchanan here ... Oh fuck it. This guy is delusional to the extreme. Yeah Hitler bleated on and on about how he wanted peace publicly, but every freaking move he made was pretty much about landgrabbing and war. As for the 'Final Solution'?? He discussed something like that as far back as 'Mein Kampf' so for anyone to think he was this peaceful kind of guy who just wanted to get along has to be freaking delusional. I've lived in Germany, seen Dachau, and no I don't believe for a minute that Hitler wanted peace in any form, he wanted to conquer everything and set out to do just that. The real sin is that the rest of the world gave way so often prior to September 1, 1939.

(Reply to this)


[info]ladysphinx
2009-09-04 03:57 am UTC (link)
Please confirm that I'm reading Buchanan's article correctly: if the Allies had not made such a big fucking deal about him, Hitler would have ended the war by 1940 and he would never have had to kill all those Jews?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]etcetera_cat, 2009-09-04 02:39 pm UTC

[info]dana
2009-09-04 04:07 am UTC (link)
You know, there are a lot of wars in history which are all shady and ambiguous as to who started what. And I guess you could argue that the winners of WWI are somewhat responsible for how Germany turned out because of their drive to make Germany pay...hence leading to a political climate where Hitler came to power.

But...heh, Hitler was fairly clear in his goals, after he came to power. The white flag wouldn't have done anything in this situation, and talks failed, the British tried that.

(Reply to this)


[info]snarkhunter
2009-09-04 04:26 am UTC (link)
Soooo...Buchanan. Big fan of Neville Chamberlain?

(Reply to this)


[info]galletas
2009-09-04 04:52 am UTC (link)
Sounds like he's been listening to some Russian politicians.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]radiotrash, 2009-09-04 05:48 am UTC

[info]somnambulicious
2009-09-04 05:27 am UTC (link)
Here's a tip, Mr. Buchanan: When your only supporters in the comments on your own blog reference David Irving and spout "Elders of Zion"-esque bullshit, it's time to shut up and go away.

(Reply to this)


[info]frequentmouse
2009-09-04 06:24 am UTC (link)
Between this and Glenn Beck's foray into art history</i> the right wing whackaloon contingent has gone past foaming at the mouth craziness into surreal performance art.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-09-04 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-09-04 08:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-09-04 05:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-09-04 07:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-09-04 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-09-04 07:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysphinx, 2009-09-04 04:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-09-04 05:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-09-04 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]julia, 2009-09-05 01:49 am UTC

[info]chikane
2009-09-04 07:52 am UTC (link)
Oh screw you, revisionists.

No, Hitler didn't want the war to "end" in 1940, unless you define "ending" as "Hitler squashed all countries around germany to make way for his Nazi empire".

And that's not exactly nice and peaceful, you clueless, clueless, illogical people.

(Reply to this)


[info]ahiru
2009-09-04 02:41 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, Poland totally made Hitler invade. Shame on you, Poland. Also, the Jews made funny faces in Hitler's direction which is why he persecuted and killed them. See? Nothing was his fault at all! Everyone was just meeeean to him!

Go away and shut up and die, Pat Buchanan.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

offensive analogies ahead! - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-09-04 03:22 pm UTC
Re: offensive analogies ahead! - [info]ahiru, 2009-09-04 06:52 pm UTC
Re: offensive analogies ahead! - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-09-04 06:58 pm UTC
Re: offensive analogies ahead! - [info]blue_penguin, 2009-09-05 05:51 am UTC
Re: offensive analogies ahead! - [info]coffeebun, 2009-09-05 09:39 am UTC


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