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	mcity 2008-06-20 07:42 pm UTC (link)
	We're talking about the same comic that did a strip with Sonic describing how he snorted crushed rings off a prostitute's derrière. My memory is fogged with time; it possibly was an underage male prostitute. This? This is just Friday. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	mcity 2008-06-20 07:43 pm UTC (link)
	Specifically, this comic. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pyratejenni 2008-06-20 08:39 pm UTC (link)
	A dead skunk is more feminist that the average gamer. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	notjo 2008-06-20 10:18 pm UTC (link)
	Truer words were never typed. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sparkthatbled 2008-06-21 12:41 am UTC (link)
	How about a live skunk? (Reply to this)(Parent)

lyssa
2008-06-20 08:44 pm UTC (link)

Ugh, rape + D&D. I've seen way too many backgrounds of "my 18 CHA paladin got raped in teh past, so now she hates men, and is an ice queen lesbian," and heard enough stories of female characters getting special rape treatment from GMs, so it automatically makes me start to twitch.

I don't want to listen to the podcast, but their reaction is not making me too happy. From what it sounds like, it breaks the Shakesville rule of rape jokes: if they are going to be funny, they have to be funny to the victim, not the rapist. And that makes me want to punch a baby. I can hope for a context that could make it better, but I doubt it is there.

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	notjo 2008-06-20 10:20 pm UTC (link)
	You too? I actually banned rape-related backgrounds in one of my LARPs. And... yeah on the rape-related treatment from GMs or fellow players, too. sigh I used to think I was the only one who had these issues in RPing, and then I found out I wasn't. This didn't make me happier. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

lyssa
2008-06-20 11:57 pm UTC (link)

Well, I'm lucky now in that none of the people I play with would pull something like that, both because they think it was disgusting, and because they know I'd kick their ass for it.

When a GM does it though, you really have to know your audience, have it make sense, treat it with the gravity it deserves, and make sure they are okay with it (and it's perfectly ok if a player isn't. You're there to have fun, not participate in "lolz realistic fantasy rape" fantasy). Most of the tales of GMs that pull it I hear violate pretty much all of those guidelines. It probably can be done well, but we don't even try just because it's, well, a serious thing that might ruin a character and it isn't fun.

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	findchaem 2008-06-21 03:10 am UTC (link)
	You too? Me three. In multiple games, no less - and the GMs always thought they were doing something awesomely original by making the female character's first adventure turn into a gang-rape scenario. "What do you mean, you cast magic missile? There are too many of them to fight!" geez. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	napalmnacey 2008-06-21 04:56 am UTC (link)
	I think the GM would meet with my magic fist in that instance. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cygnia 2008-06-21 10:30 pm UTC (link)
	Try having the asshole GM turn your male character into a woman just so he can act out his rape fantasies (to say nothing of the hypocrisy when he plays big breasted leather-clad whip-wielding nympho lesbian redheaded elves ALL THE TIME but thinks it's wrong if women play male characters). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

findchaem
2008-06-21 11:18 pm UTC (link)

Try having the asshole GM turn your male character into a woman

No thanks, I'll pass.

plays big breasted leather-clad whip-wielding nympho lesbian redheaded elves ALL THE TIME

There used to be a creepy guy around the local Games Club who'd always play lesbian characters with elaborate backstories, but never do any adventure-related roleplaying once he joined a campaign. As I recall he held some sort of club record for the most characters killed by other members of the party.

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	lyssa 2008-06-23 05:54 am UTC (link)
	D: After reading this, the only thing that has kept my faith in male gamers has been my husband's looks of horror as I relay in, well, horror. I thought the main rule of RP was that whole "fun" thing, especially for your players. Christ. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chaimonkey 2008-06-20 11:00 pm UTC (link)
	I stopped RPing with some of my guy friends when they decided my character was a lesbian so she could have hot lesbian sex with the leader of the thieves guild. This was before they knew I was bi, to which they reacted kind of oddly actually. ...Yeah, that was a big clue about where their heads were, actually. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lyssa 2008-06-21 12:00 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, thinking about the stupid shit some guy gamers do until they (hopefully) get their heads out of their asses, makes me glad for once to have that annoying "GM's Wife LOLZ" tag. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

chaimonkey
2008-06-21 12:08 am UTC (link)

Yeah, about the only group I haven't experienced that sort of shit in was my fencing club's D&D group. But obviously there's a different dynamic from the start, since they already learned to respect me at practice - that and they weren't your usual hyper-sexualized douchebags. XD

That group was awesome - the GM's character was obsessed with stew, so one night he made stew for us all!

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	funwithrage 2008-06-21 04:52 pm UTC (link)
	Yep. There are about five people who I'd keep RPing with (or reading their writing) if they brought in characters with backstory rape. I know them all RL. Everyone else? Sorry, but it's a giant Attention Whore flag. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2008-06-27 04:07 am UTC (link)
	Word, word and word. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kijikun 2008-06-20 10:30 pm UTC (link)
	O_o Have you read Penny Arcade? They have a...odd sense of humor. And I'm pretty sure when they say 'rape is a minor action' they aren't talking about real rape. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	pyratejenni 2008-06-20 11:27 pm UTC (link)
	Okay. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ariadne484
2008-06-20 11:54 pm UTC (link)

People always say things like this when their friends make offensive jokes.

And I'm pretty sure when they say 'rape is a minor action' they aren't talking about real rape.

One would hope. They still trivialized a pretty non-trivial occurence, though.

(And yes, i have read Penny Arcade. I still think the comic is funny; as a fat woman of color I'm used to appreciating media made by people who wouldn't think much of me. That doesn't mean I have to think this joke is, or that it's not offensive.)

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iwanttobeasleep
2008-06-21 02:33 am UTC (link)

I've read Penny Arcade for years. They make some pretty crass jokes, but I've never seen anything that trivializes rape, or any real crime, for that matter. But it wasn't so much the joke that got me, it was that they were so flippant about it being offensive and how loledgy they were for making the joke (newsflash, joking about rape isn't new or edgy). Had Wizards not forced them to take it out I probably would have been skeeved out for a bit and enjoyed the rest of the podcast; this just cemented how bad the "joke" was.

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	napalmnacey 2008-06-21 04:58 am UTC (link)
	Making jokes about rape is like walking around with a big flourescent t-shirt under blue lights saying "I AM A FLAMING CUNT." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kijikun 2008-06-21 06:48 am UTC (link)
	Dude, I'm usually the first person to go apeshit of stuff like that, but I think your overreacting. Plus not the first time PA has used the word rape in a joke or punchline. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	findchaem 2008-06-21 03:47 pm UTC (link)
	Perhaps the difference this time is the context: a lot of women gamers have had the uncomfortable experience of male GMs acting out rape scenarios, and the joke seems like one more iteration of a bad experience. (Reply to this)(Parent)

kylenne
2008-06-21 07:55 pm UTC (link)

"I think you're overreacting."

I'm sorry but anyone who uses that sentence in a discussion about rape jokes gets the stank eye from me. I've been a PA fan for years and years, and I've been enjoying the D&D podcast so far, but rape jokes beyond being incredibly insensitive, are not even funny or edgy (it's seanbaby level humor and beneath PA, IMO) and they sounded like a couple of privileged white boys with their heads up their asses. They fucked up. Everyone fucks up sometimes. Price of being human.

And ditto what findchaem said below about context. I'm not sure if you've ever played tabletop RPGs, but male DMs forcing female PCs into rape scenarios has a long, sordid history. Fortunately in my 15 years of playing D&D I've never been subjected to it (I've either been the DM or have played in mostly female groups), but far too many women have and have been put off the hobby altogether because of it. The practice is especially galling when you consider the sexual assault statistics in America. I'm a survivor and I know a lot of survivors who game; for me, D&D was one of my coping mechanisms. If some fuckwit had pulled that on me at the table, I'd have probably gone to jail.

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	napalmnacey 2008-06-22 11:25 am UTC (link)
	Screw being put off D&D, this entire post has nearly made me a lesbian. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iwanttobeasleep 2008-06-21 11:51 pm UTC (link)
	I don't really see how I'm overreacting. I was pretty upset but I get that upset over Lost. Plus, having an off sense of humor and joking about rape before--which I insist I haven't seen, and the times they do joke about abuse and stuff, it hasn't been the offensive, trivializing kind of jokes--doesn't make the jokes okay now. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chaimonkey 2008-06-20 10:57 pm UTC (link)
	Go WoC! And maybe their wives will explain it to them. headdesk (Reply to this)

	khym_chanur 2008-06-21 12:10 am UTC (link)
	"Minor action"? Does that have some specific meaning in the context of D&D, or did they mean exactly "not that important"? (Reply to this)(Thread)

pocketfox
2008-06-21 01:17 am UTC (link)

I believe (I hope) they're referring to the D&D sort of "minor action", which if I recall correctly (as it's been a million years since I last played), means an action small enough that it doesn't take up your turn, and you can do something else during that turn as well. But don't quote me on that, and either way it still trivializes the action of rape in a very D: way.

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	iwanttobeasleep 2008-06-21 02:35 am UTC (link)
	Yep, it's that. The podcast in question is them doing a campaign with the new system. I actually really enjoy the podcast which is why this is pretty upsetting to me. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kylenne 2008-06-21 07:58 pm UTC (link)
	I've been enjoying it too so far. I'm really glad I didn't listen to this episode yet. I've already been triggered to death from the massive Jezebel rape wank (which I'd have posted here, but I'm still too upset about it). God why are people so goddamn stupid and insensitive. DIAF, humanity. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iwanttobeasleep 2008-06-21 11:47 pm UTC (link)
	The references are removed (and really well, you can't tell it's been edited). There's one thing about getting "penetrated" by a goblin, which I assume preceded one of the "jokes", but nothing more. Jezebel is a bad place if you're actually looking for decent people. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	napalmnacey 2008-06-21 04:59 am UTC (link)
	Okay, there's another comic I'm striking off my 'to read' list. (Reply to this)

	turante 2008-06-21 05:28 am UTC (link)
	This is why I never played D&D with dudes. (Reply to this)

	solesakuma 2008-06-21 07:10 am UTC (link)
	You know, the fact that a few days ago a guy ran over a 10 years-old girl, then raped her and set her on fire makes this hit even harder. Rape = NOT FUNNY; damn it. Why is is so hard to grasp? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	solesakuma 2008-06-21 07:14 am UTC (link)
	And now I've just found out he ran over her in order to get her into the car... I hate the world. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	gardnerhill 2008-06-21 07:34 am UTC (link)
	You don't need to hate the whole world. Just the half of the world that rapes, lies us into war, and thinks games that joke about destroying women are entertaining. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	funwithrage 2008-06-21 08:07 pm UTC (link)
	I...really hope I'm overreacting to this, and that you're not saying, or implying, that all men are like that. (Or that rape "destroys" women, for that matter.) Because I think we're talking about well under half the world here, otherwise. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	barankhy 2008-06-22 09:48 am UTC (link)
	Thanks for this lovely generalization. Please do let the door hit you in the twat on the way out <3 (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pocketfox 2008-06-22 06:00 pm UTC (link)
	There is so much wrong with that statement I'm not even going to start. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ladyofviolets 2008-06-23 01:09 pm UTC (link)
	Let's see... No journal entries, no friends aside system, no comms joined... OBVIOUS TROLL IS OBVIOUS. If not troll, well, thank you so much for perpetuating the infamous "feminists are man-hating morons" stereotype. Puh-lease. =/ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	entropicdecay 2008-06-24 11:08 am UTC (link)
	Shut up. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	suziecroft 2008-06-21 01:15 pm UTC (link)
	Aaaaaand now Gabe has bahleeted it, and posted this in its place. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	iwanttobeasleep 2008-06-21 01:45 pm UTC (link)
	Not even a Heidipology? I'm disappointed. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	vroom 2008-06-23 12:59 pm UTC (link)
	Ugh, what did the original post say? I only saw the new one. I like how Gabe's new post now basically amounts to: "We weren't saying rape isn't significant. We were joking about how rape isn't significant enough to use up a whole turn in D&D." Yeah, whatever. (Reply to this)(Thread)

iwanttobeasleep
2008-06-23 05:09 pm UTC (link)

It basically went like this:

"Wizards sent us an e-mail about some things in our latest D&D podcast. I think we're the only people to have gotten an e-mail like this.

There are some things in your latest podcast that aren't appropriate for the site.

1. A reference to Gabe's character putting his wand into the crypt and it "Crying a little".

2. A reference to rape being a "minor action".

I love my job."

Paraphrased, of course, bt that's pretty close.

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	vroom 2008-06-23 06:22 pm UTC (link)
	UGH. It's the "I love my job" bit at the end which kills me. Yeah, Gabe. You're so cool and edgy: only you make D&D rape jokes. Except not, because apparently rape is pretty fucking ubiquitous in D&D. (Reply to this)(Parent)