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another reason to hate people, politics, rights what rights?, teh ebil ghey agenda!

You know what we should do? Make it okay to bully queer students
C&P:

Matt Windschitl and Jason Schultz, two Iowa lawmakers, have proposed a bill to explicitly remove gay and lesbian students from anti-bullying policies in state schools.

Gay and lesbian teens are currently protected by the state’s Safe Schools Act, which aims to help students who are being bullied and harassed by ensuring a safe and non-judgmental environment to report incidents. Unacceptable, according to Schultz, who said that he has nothing against gay students, but added that he needs to remove their protections because it will lead to same-sex marriage.

Yes, you read that right. Windschitl and Schultz want to remove anti-bullying measures for gay students—one of the most vulnerable and harassed minorities—from public schools because he opposes an unrelated issue, same-sex marriage. It’s a destructive message for already bullied students, for whom these lawmakers not only have no empathy, but outright disdain.

And the excuse… It spells things out pretty clearly, doesn’t it?

I’ve pointed out many times that the lawmakers and lobbyists behind the movement to ban same-sex marriage don’t typically oppose gay weddings—they dislike gay people period. Maybe they think we’re just indulging in some personal fetish; maybe they think we’re sick in the head; whatever their misconception, one thing is clear: They aim to discriminate against all gay people at the level of the law. Once they ensure that gay people do not have the same legal rights to marriage as straights, they will move to restrict other rights and freedoms. The right to safe schools is just the start.

You can help stop it, not only by contacting Jason Schultz and Matt Windschitl, but by standing up for equal rights everywhere. Apathy is not an appropriate reaction when this is the level that opponents sink to.

Still More:
Youtube Video: Why Do Jason Schultz and Matt Windschitl Hate LGBT Students? TRANSCRIPT.

SAFE SCHOOL PROPOSAL: Two lawmakers want to exclude gay and lesbian students

Email them: jason.schultz@legis.state.ia.us, matt.windschitl@legis.state.ia.us

Sample letter for easy copy & paste: http://zjemptv.com/-/hf2291 (but feel free to write your own)

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	oodlesoquim 2010-02-12 08:34 am UTC (link)
	Yes, exactly! EXACTLY. I'm also Catholic, and this is exactly the church's position. And honestly, it's the sin of presumption to assume you know who -- if anyone -- is going to hell. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

bandit
2010-02-12 09:59 am UTC (link)

Wait, can I ask for clarification for a moment? You're saying it's the Catholic church's position that no one should assume anyone is going to Hell? If that's the case, I'm now really confused, because a former acquaintance of mine recently converted to hardcore Catholicism and the reason why the word "former" was even just used there is because she decided to tell me, a lesbian with a committed life partner, that the sexual intercourse I was having was morally wrong and was sending me to Hell.

If that isn't what you were saying, just ignore this comment, but if it is, I officially give up. I will never understand this world.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ooh boy. Let's see if I can answer coherently.

oodlesoquim
2010-02-12 02:00 pm UTC (link)

Oh boy. I really adore Catholics like that.

It's early here, and I'm running without a lot of sleep, so tell me if this makes no sense and I'll try again, because it is a little confusing -- even for a lot of Catholics because, like a lot of things in the Catholic faith, it's complex.

The church's position is currently (and, as a traditional Catholic I think very wrongly for a lot of reasons, which are far too extensive for a JF comment) that intercourse among people of the same sex is a mortal sin -- which means one of the sins that is bad enough to endanger your relationship to God, therefore putting one in danger of damnation. Now, of course, this immediately opens up the question: What if I'm not Catholic or don't believe in God and therefore don't have a relationship with God? The short answer to that would require another huge comment, so let's just suffice it to say that she could have said you were destined for Hell (presumptuously!) for those reasons, too -- but that's a whole other story.

HOWEVER. A few things about sin:

One cannot truly commit a mortal sin if one's conscience tells them that what they're doing isn't wrong. For example: As a Catholic, I think that the church's teaching on homosexuality is not only wrong, but toxic to LGBTQ people, the church, and society at large. Therefore, if I blindly follow along with it, I commit sin in my own eyes and condemn myself. The same if I go to my priest and say "I had sex with my girlfriend last night" when I don't believe that to be sinful.

The Vatican recently has tried to downplay this teaching, called the primacy of conscience, and their attempts to do so are nonsensical and really out of line with centuries of tradition. Their efforts to do so are ridiculous and out of touch with sacred tradition.

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	Re: ooh boy. Let's see if I can answer coherently. snarkhunter 2010-02-12 02:16 pm UTC (link)
	I had no idea there was such a tradition--and I'm really pleased to discover it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: ooh boy. Let's see if I can answer coherently.

oodlesoquim
2010-02-12 02:26 pm UTC (link)

:) Yes, indeed! Lots of Catholics don't know either because, well, following the Vatican unquestioningly is so much easier.

A really good friend of mine has an extensive Web site devoted to Catholic teaching and the place of GLBTQ people in church history and sacred tradition. He helped me out a lot when I was much younger and trying to come to terms with being Catholic and bisexual. If you're curious, check out this: http://webspace.webring.com/people/up/pharsea/RightsOfWrong.html#What%20is%20conscience

Be warned, though! If you have any interest in Catholicism, Platonism, Catholic history or Catholic views of homosexuality, his site is the equivalent of TV tropes. If you wander into the topical index, be sure you have a lot of free time, sandwiches, water and a flashlight ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

it has a part two!

oodlesoquim
2010-02-12 02:20 pm UTC (link)

And now we get to presumption here. Given that she sounds like a Catholic who thinks that following the Vatican's party line unquestioningly will lead her to the gates of heaven (which is ... patently silly if she's ever paid attention to any number of church positions that have been reversed and repudiated), I can see her telling a friend that she was concerned that her behavior was endangering her soul. It's a little weird to use that kind of language towards someone who isn't (again, I assume?) Christian, especially if that someone doesn't believe in sin, but again, that's something this type of Catholic would likely do.

But it is incredibly presumptuous of her to say "you're going to Hell!" for reasons that the poster before me mentioned and because, well, she's not God. She doesn't know your heart or your mind or your conscience. She doesn't know God's thoughts about your soul's destination. And to me it sounds like she doesn't understand a lot about God's mercy and love, either. The Catholic position, as inashala stated before me, is that the threat of damnation is a clear and present one, given how good people have proven themselves to be at not listening to God. But seeing as we don't know the souls and hearts of even the most twisted of humans (which LGBTQ people are certainly not among by virtue of being LGBTQ), we don't know who, if anyone, is there.

It sounds to me like your former friend would be a lot happier in the Southern Baptist Church across the street. What she told you is Catholic only in the sense that so many poorly catechized Catholics believe it because it's fashionable and too many stupid and theologically suspect priests and clergy reinforce it. (By the way, I count myself among the poorly catechized, seeing as they catechized me! I've had a lot of self-teaching to do, and a lot of schooling at the hands of other, finer Catholic minds than mine, including laity well-versed in the church teaching and history and a number of good priests, too.)

As a gay Catholic myself (though one who has trouble practicing because she's fed up with ignorance like that your former friend showed towards you) I'm sorry you had to put up with that sort of treatment. It wasn't right, for so many reasons.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: it has a part two!

bandit
2010-02-13 04:27 am UTC (link)

Thank you for taking the time to explain things to me. Really, I should be educating myself because it shouldn't at all be your job to do so, but I've just been so ill over it that I haven't wanted to look at anything regarding things like that. I tried so hard to argue with her, saying to her "you aren't God, etc." (you are correct in your assumption I'm not Christian, though I've done some scholarly studies on it. Just a little though) and when she wouldn't listen I just felt defeated. I've just been having so much trouble understanding the change in her and struggling with blaming religion itself and the fact that I can't bring myself to forgive her.

Uh, that was a little more rambley than intended, but really, thanks! It made me feel a little better.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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