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zellieh ([info]zellieh) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2010-02-13 02:33:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Privacy concerns over Google Buzz, G-Mail, Chat & Reader
.
ETA Feb 14: UPDATE ON THE GOOGLE BUZZ SITUATION:

Google have listened to the complaints they were getting and changed a lot of the options for Buzz. As they said, "It's been an exciting and challenging week for the Buzz team. [...] We quickly realized that we didn't get everything quite right." ( ::wide-eyed look:: No, really? /sarcasm.)

I'm not sure yet if Google will fix all of the privacy issues and other problems with Buzz -- Google doesn't seem to be doing anything to prevent spammers harvesting your email address from your Buzz user ID, for example; I'm also not sure if it will fix the problems with Buzz displaying email names/Profile names you want to keep private, especially since you still seem to have very little control over what other people do with your information on their Buzz profiles.

Google has fixed the issues with Buzz auto-following people for you -- you choose who you follow now. They've also made it easier to make your profile private; made it easier to manage Buzz options from its own section in Gmail settings; and stopped auto-linking your Picasa, Reader, etc. to Buzz. Initial set-up for Buzz will be slower and a bit more complicated now, but I think that's a good thing.

Link here: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/new-buzz-start-up-experience-based-on.html

I've already noticed three problems from the options in the screencaps at the link above:
1. Google are rolling out the added Buzz options in Settings gradually, because I still don't have that option in my Settings (as of Feb 14).
2. If you want to disable Buzz completely, Google will delete your Profile for you -- but what if you want to keep your Google Profile? What if you use it for other things?
3. When I'm selecting who to follow, I would still see my contacts' emails linked to their names (taken from their Google profiles, I assume), so unless everyone on my contacts list has corrected their Google Profile to hide their real names, I could still see someone's real name associated with their fannish email address. This is still creepy! ::shudders:: /ETA

Back to original post -- but please remember that some of this has changed now that Google have started to fix some of the problems with Buzz!

Link to Business Insider's article, WARNING: Google Buzz Has A Huge Privacy Flaw, here: http://www.businessinsider.com/warning-google-buzz-has-a-huge-privacy-flaw-2010-2

Google has set up its new social networking tool, Buzz, to be automatically opt-out for all users. If you use GMail or GChat they set Buzz up for you automatically -- you have to opt-out if you don't want it. (ETA Feb 14: This has now changed.)

Not a problem so far, really, except that they also set up lists of followers for you automatically, from your Gmail & chat contacts, and those people can then see your information. They can also access Reader stuff, if you use Reader. (ETA Feb 14: This has now changed.)

Those lists are public on your (also public by default) profile page, users and followers are hard to block from following you because it lacks any granular privacy controls, and also -- the big problem for a lot of people -- if you signed up for Gmail using your real name, it may well make that user name public on your profiles and lists, thus linking fannish identities with off-line identities. (ETA Feb 14: These problems have now been made more obvious when you sign up, but haven't really been fixed yet.)

NOTE: Google have had some really bad publicity about this, and are already backtracking, so this is all subject to change without notice. As far as I know, although they may have set up profile automatically for some people at first, they've already stopped doing that. Now you have to sign in and set up a profile for Buzz, but the privacy settings are still not public enough -- or granular enough -- for my tastes. (See ETA at top of this post -- Google are making even more changes.)

I posted about it on DW & cross-posted to my other journals, if you want more details, and links to other bloggers. Links here:
JF: http://www.journalfen.net/users/zellieh/13358.html
DW: http://zellieh.dreamwidth.org/106495.html
LJ: http://zellieh.livejournal.com/123537.html
IJ: http://zellieh.insanejournal.com/76023.html


(Post a new comment)


[info]keri
2010-02-13 07:18 am UTC (link)
Apparently, if you don't have a google profile set up (even if you use Reader and GMail and Picassa and GTalk), this doesn't apply. YAY. I was confused for a minute to try and opt-out (because I don't want to be public at ALL on my google account), then realized that since I had never set up a profile, I wasn't even opted in. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 12:58 pm UTC (link)
I'd highly recommend that you check your settings anyhow. Buzz had auto-followed six people for me without my permission and decided to pull Reader, Chat status and Picasa updates to post to my Buzz feed when I'd said "No thanks" at the initial screen that tried to get me to use Buzz. I never enabled it and it was trying to post for me. Not as public an issue as the profile one, but it's kind of creepy to me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2010-02-13 06:08 pm UTC (link)
Not only did it automatically follow 15 people for me AFTER I hit "Nah, just take me to my inbox," one of those people was someone really creepy who... did something really creepy to me last year. Because he was creepy. LIKE GOOGLE BUZZ.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 06:13 pm UTC (link)
Fun times!

Reader pulled something similar on me too, and I know for a fact it did it without my say so because I haven't used Reader since I finished grad school a couple of years ago. Apparently just logging in to try and make sure it was set to private meant it thought I wanted to OMG FOLLOW EVERYONE ON MY EMAIL CONTACTS! So it sent follow requests to six people whom I've emailed in the past and who use Reader. One of whom I don't know personally and would never have tried to follow and who now probably thinks I'm a creepy stalker. Thanks, Google!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2010-02-13 06:20 pm UTC (link)
Reader is part of the Buzz apparatus now, is why it did that. It did it to me, too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 06:21 pm UTC (link)
Well, Reader can suck it. I locked it all down. But those follow requests? I can't undo them and I can't unfollow because I'm not actually following. I just have pending requests.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2010-02-13 06:45 pm UTC (link)
I did go back, turn Buzz on (sigh), unfollow everyone it followed for me, and block everyone following me--even though some of them were actual friends, because I have no idea what Google will gleefully decide to make public. I'm hearing that people are seeing other people's chat logs.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 06:47 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, that's probably from the "linked sites" feature. I almost missed it and I think it's one of the more insidious things about it. Even if you never intentionally post to Buzz, it's posting FOR you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2010-02-13 06:56 pm UTC (link)
It was also like, "We found eight other sites you're on! Link them in!" MAYBE THERE'S A REASON I DIDN'T CONNECT THEM, YOU ASSHOLES.

I'll tell you one thing--they said Buzz "would help bridge the gap between work and leisure." That pretty much says everything you need to know about where they're coming from--they seem unable to understand that most of us don't want to do that. I mean, think of all the shit people have on Facebook but don't want their employers to see. Let's bridge that. Nothing could possibly go wrong!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 07:01 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, me? I like my work and my leisure separated. Because work is WORK. I don't get paid for leisure. It's kind of a big difference.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sgaana
2010-02-13 09:49 pm UTC (link)
"would help bridge the gap between work and leisure."

How... HOW did they not think for TWO SECONDS and realize how many professions REQUIRE an absolute separation between work and leisure? How many require confidentiality as a legal matter? Not to mention... how many people might use their Gmail account for some leisure things and some business things and NO, I don't want to be "buddies" with the person I sold something to on eBay a few months ago, gah.

Their short-sightedness and lack of understanding of how people view email, and what expectations they have for it, are stunning.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]silrana
2010-02-14 01:46 pm UTC (link)
I don't understand how companies - because this isn't the first time something like this has happened - can think that everyone on the internet wants their entire lives thrown open to the public. That everyone on the planet is just a friend you haven't met yet, and there is no reason you wouldn't want an ex or employer or relative to see what you've been doing.

Or heck, even real friends. I have some wonderful friends, but I don't think they need to know every move I make and every single thing I'm interested in.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ghoulsis
2010-02-14 12:36 am UTC (link)
I'm hearing that people are seeing other people's chat logs.

WHAT?!

*scrambles to block my mom* *and my ex*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]red_squared
2010-02-14 11:38 am UTC (link)
I'm hearing that people are seeing other people's chat logs.

Wait -- what now?!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]jackandahat
2010-02-14 03:19 pm UTC (link)
Mine added my stalker ex-girlfriend I haven't talked to in 2 years, alongside two ex-friends. My assumption is because we used to E-Mail a *lot*. But. I haven't had contact with her in 2 years!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-14 07:52 pm UTC (link)
I don't know what the reasoning is behind who it picks. Mine picked up someone I've emailed precisely twice over several people I email back and forth with all the time (all gmail addresses). It's bizarre.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]keri
2010-02-13 06:22 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I tried to check settings and everything, but it kept shunting me to the Turn On Your Google Profile page. Now, I don't use Picasa and I did turn off everything I could without setting up a profile, but from the instructions for getting rid of Buzz entirely, it looks like you have to delete your profile - which I don't even have.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 06:24 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I'm hoping that not having a profile means no follower lists are public, but I still don't want Buzz posting shit without my knowledge. That's a few steps too far down the path to Terminator-land for me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]keri
2010-02-13 06:31 pm UTC (link)
Oh, wait, so how do you get a Buzz list and junk without going from the profile? because that's where I assumed it's linked to it, since I couldn't follow any steps to disable Buzz without creating a profile first. (Well, I disabled it from my gmail and tried to figure out how to disable it from my reader, but I don't share things from there and so I just set the share to being private only, and I don't have any following/ed people, and I removed the chat contacts from being able to see my stuff if I do choose to share it, but that's as much as I could see to do)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]keri
2010-02-13 06:35 pm UTC (link)
Also, one thing I have never liked is that when editing your personal information for your Google account, you can't leave the "last name" field blank. At least twice a year, I go in and try to remove anything from that field and it hollers at me. Why do I have to have a first and last name associated with the account? It seems so stupid. I don't think an account I created for a secret santa info exchange in 2009 has a first/last name associated with it, but my email from 2005 does :/

(so I just stuck in an exclamation point. emails from me are coming from keri !)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 06:39 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, mine's a single letter.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bolboreta
2010-02-13 09:34 pm UTC (link)
Regardless of what it says the change affecting all of your Google accounts, the name on your emails can be set independently (Settings->Acounts and Import). I changed my last name into a single letter for Buzz (and now Google Docs and many other things), but the name in my emails had been set separately so it didn't change.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eilisliana
2010-02-14 02:17 am UTC (link)
I usually set up my gmail accounts with the username as the name like eilisliana / Eilis Liana.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bitca
2010-02-15 04:44 pm UTC (link)
My spam gmail account's name is "Don't" and "Bother."

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2010-02-13 06:37 pm UTC (link)
You have to enable it, go into it and unfollow and block and all that jazz, then disable it again. Because it's still there, regardless of whether you have it enabled. It's just not displayed if you have it "off".

When you enable it and click on it up in the menu, it'll bring you to a screen that has two boxes. One is the people it followed for you and one is the people who are following you. You can unfollow everyone you're following and then you can remove followers and block them if you want. No one sees that they've been blocked but it'll keep anyone you do block from refollowing. THEN! Under those should be a line about "linked services" or "linked sites". Click on the link there and it will bring up a list of things that Google has linked to your Buzz and will post to it. Mine had Reader and Picasa enabled, even though I haven't used Reader in a couple of years and I've never used Picasa. I removed both and saved.

Then I disabled Buzz again. I'll probably re-enable it in a few days to make sure I'm still not being followed by anyone. Or if they offer users the option to OPT OUT of the damn thing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dottiness
2010-02-13 12:16 pm UTC (link)
This is really concerning to me because it also includes random people I've emailed that I'm no longer in touch with and things like that. I used to run some communities on LJ and had to email various members about stuff, and when Gmail set me up for Buzz, yep, they were included.

I've since turned it off. This really gives me the creepers.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]zellieh
2010-02-13 07:22 pm UTC (link)
Oh, yuck! ::shudders::

I don't blame you. The more I learn about Buzz, the more it creeps me out.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dreamer_marie
2010-02-13 12:34 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the info! I was wondering what this annoying new thing was. It's good to know how to turn it off.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]zellieh
2010-02-13 08:02 pm UTC (link)
You're welcome! I still haven't figure out how to get rid of Buzz completely; I can shut it down and largely disable it, but Google don't seem to have a perfect opt-out option yet.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ghoulsis
2010-02-13 05:04 pm UTC (link)
OH THANK YOU. I'd been trying to figure out how to get rid of/shut off that stupid thing. Not so much out of privacy concerns, but because I just do not need one more bell or whistle on that account. I'll never forget how chronically enraged I was when they rolled out chat, which made everything glitchy for what felt like years. I JUST WANT TO CHECK MY EMAIL! *smash*

Sorry. I'll clean up now.

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[info]zellieh
2010-02-13 07:18 pm UTC (link)
You're welcome. Sadly, it does seem that Buzz is the zombie killer app that will not die; the turn Buzz off option just hides the damn thing, more like a standby switch than an off switch, still less the kill switch I really want. Hopefully deleting the profile will be enough, but I'm not sure I trust Google to keep Buzz turned off even then. They seem determined to connect everything, whether you want them to or not.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cleolinda
2010-02-13 06:50 pm UTC (link)
Two different people have told me that Buzz allowed them to see other people's chat logs--chats that were obviously not intended to be made public on Buzz. In theory, I guess it's nice to have all your applications under one roof and interconnected, but the privacy invasion seems to actually be retroactive, and I have no idea what they'll decide to expose next (or what we haven't noticed yet). The whole thing is so badly designed that I don't want anything to do with it, and it's going to stay off. And if anyone can tell me what the sweet hell Google was thinking, I'd love to know.

(Apparently WordPress is acting up today, but when it does work, this is the reason it's a big deal. Short version: Buzz autofollowed this blogger's ex-husband and gave him access to comments she'd made revealing her location.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]zellieh
2010-02-13 07:12 pm UTC (link)
That's even more f-d up than I already thought it was. Chatlogs should be private, dammit.

I spotted Fugitivus' post, and that's one of the reasons I posted this. Luckily, it seems that that was a bug with Reader -- although it looked like her ex could see her posts because his name was on the list, he actually couldn't; for some reason the list wasn't updating properly. Still, way to go on scaring the hell out of someone, Google.

She made a follow-up post explaining that, which I also linked to on the posts on my journals; it's here: Screw You Google: http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/screw-you-google/

Seriously, though, the more I learn about Buzz, the harder I want to kick Google.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bobafeis
2010-02-13 07:43 pm UTC (link)
It keeps reconnecting sites. Every time I change my gchat status, it reconnects gchat, reader and picasa. I don't even have a Picasa account, but I do have angry wrath.

Also, professors at a school I no longer attend? Strangers I interacted with once, when I was selling old books? My boss? NOT PEOPLE I WANT FOLLOWING ME!

::kicks something::

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[info]zellieh
2010-02-13 08:00 pm UTC (link)
I've heard that from other people too. Buzz just keeps coming back, like the Borg.

I know! Google's supposed to be full of smart people -- why would they thing that algorithms could successfully model complex human social interactions? Social networks are one of *the* hardest things to model.

::kicks Google Buzz::

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cygnia
2010-02-13 11:43 pm UTC (link)
I can at least set my Gchat status as perpetually invisible.

*yet another "'No, I'm not interested in Buzz!' clicker who got stuck with Buzz anyways" poster*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]gmth
2010-02-13 10:44 pm UTC (link)
Now I wish I had chosen another email service to set up my 14-year-old son's account. It's bad enough worrying about my own privacy, I'm absolutely paranoid about his. What the hell was Google thinking?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]silrana
2010-02-14 01:39 pm UTC (link)
I'm in the same boat. I set up gmail accounts for my daughters for interactions with their teachers at their virtual school, and I'm wondering what Google will splash around the internet about them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]yoritomo_reiko
2010-02-14 01:26 am UTC (link)
Well, at least they listen:

http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/new-buzz-start-up-experience-based-on.html

Would have been nice if they'd done this sort of thing from the start, though.

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[info]cleolinda
2010-02-14 02:38 am UTC (link)
"Well, we had WANTED to make it easy for you, but..."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]zellieh
2010-02-14 02:04 pm UTC (link)
"...but you ungrateful people would insist on having complicated little details like privacy options!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]zellieh
2010-02-14 02:01 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for that link! I've edited my various posts to add it in. I'm not sure yet if this fix fixes everything, but at least it's better than it was.

I have to agree with you -- this is what Buzz should have been doing from the beginning.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]deliciouschaos
2010-02-14 06:09 pm UTC (link)
I must say, I love the bright red text and giant yellow icon for the "disable buzz permanently" option. Y'know, usually the "turn this service off/delete my account forever and ever" option in one's preferences is in the same font and format as any other.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]oxfordcomma
2010-02-16 12:31 am UTC (link)
Except it's not on my account yet. Argh.

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[info]deliciouschaos
2010-02-16 01:10 am UTC (link)
Mine either. I'm wondering if something's off about my account or if they're just thinking everyone will be appeased by saying they're going to do this.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]inalasahl
2010-02-15 04:28 am UTC (link)
*looks at third/bottom screen shot Wait, wait. Does that mean even though I didn't set up a profile, my name (which is not the display name I have my e-mail set to, but Google does seem to have it somehow: I know because when it asked me if I wanted to set up a profile, it auto-filled it in), is showing up on other people's lists tied to my fannish e-mail address?

Argh. Anyone know how I fix this?

(Reply to this)


 
   
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