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telegramsam ([info]telegramsam) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2010-03-18 12:43:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:oh, for fuck's sake.

A whole plethora of hypocrisy and fail wrapped up neatly with a bow
I have Roman Catholic friends that I have a lot of respect for and they hold a variety of personal beliefs and values, but none are idiotic to the point of this (if they were they would not be my friends) - from the church itself... "Vatican ends "wall of silence" over child abuse scandal".

Some of the attitudes expressed in this article, I must laugh at simply because the other option is banging my head against a wall.

"In one case, the priest defended himself on the grounds that he sincerely believed it was not sinful for him to have sexual relations - provided it was not with a woman."

Because, you know, women are totes the root of all evil and it's so much better and holier to molest defenseless children.

I can understand this priest's confusion though, considering what sort of teachings and attitudes many Christian churches, Roman Catholic and otherwise, have regarding women in general.

"He also gave numbers: during the past decade the Holy Office received details of 3,000 Catholic priests reported by their Bishops to Rome for sexual misconduct or, even worse, crimes.

Sixty per cent of these cases involved homosexual acts, 30% related to heterosexual behaviour and only 10% - or 300 priests - were, he said, 'actual cases of paedophilia.'"

The 60% vs 30% figure is particularly hilarious considering the R.C. Church's wholesale public condemnation of homosexuals.

The fact that they chose, for decades, to protect child molesters and abusers (plenty of non-sexual abuse in Catholic schools went on as well apparently), frankly... well they get no sympathy from me in this ongoing scandal. Classic case of real sin (as opposed to the made-up kind like simply being born gay) coming home to roost.


Vatican grapples with child abuse row

The Vatican is breaking its silence on the previously taboo subject of paedophilia, following allegations of sexual abuse by Catholic priests in Germany. As the Pope has now become embroiled in the scandal, the BBC's David Willey questions whether he has been doing his job properly.

During four decades of reporting from the Vatican, I have never seen a graver crisis affecting the very credibility of the leadership of the world's longest surviving international organisation, the Roman Catholic Church.

In recent weeks, Pope Benedict has had to deal with some very serious allegations.

They have been documented in two official Dublin government reports on scandals concerning the way his Church leaders in Ireland have systematically played down reported cases of clerical sexual abuse of minors.

The Pope has been busy writing new instructions to the clergy and faithful of traditionally Catholic Ireland, drawing up stricter rules for dealing with priestly paedophilia.

Multiple scandals

Without warning, he was suddenly confronting new, similar scandals which have come to light in his own country, Germany - including one in the very town where he taught at the university and where his brother was choirmaster of a famous boys' choir.

His promised pastoral letter to Ireland has had to be put on hold.

Now his record as Archbishop of Munich in the late 1970s and early 80s, is being mercilessly scrutinised by the international media.

“ For the first time, senior Catholic figures are beginning to call publicly for a re-examination of the rule of priestly celibacy ”

Did Pope Benedict know, or did he not know, about cases of priest paedophiles reported in his own diocese?

If yes, then why did he not act to discipline and remove them and inform the police?

It has since been admitted in Germany that there was a cover up, just as in similar cases elsewhere.

The Vatican says this hypothesis - as far as the Pope himself is concerned, is "false and defamatory".

But if the answer is no, then it seems legitimate to ask if the Archbishop, as he was then, was doing his job properly?

Oldest taboo

Naturally the Vatican public relations machine has been working overtime to deflect all personal criticism away from the pontiff.

A German prelate has taken the rap for the Munich cover up. The Vatican's version is that Pope Benedict knew nothing about one particularly worrisome and well-documented case which has remained in the headlines for days.

Ordinary Catholics in many countries are now asking questions about a subject which has been taboo at the Vatican ever since I can remember.

The other day a senior Vatican official, Monsignor Charles Scicluna - an amiable priest from Malta who holds the title of Promoter of Justice - actually gave a lengthy official interview about how headquarters in Rome have been reacting to the huge growth in the number of cases of clerical abuse reported to the Pope during the past decade alone.

He said their desks had been flooded with accusations of sexual misdemeanours by priests, above all in the United States, back in 2003 and 2004.

“ Only 300 priests were actual cases of paedophilia... it is not as widespread as has been believed ”
Monsignor Charles Scicluna
Cardinal Ratzinger - as he was then known - was head of the department responsible for disciplining seriously errant clergy worldwide.

He had displayed "wisdom and courage" in his handling of cases, Monsignor Scicluna declared.

He also gave numbers: during the past decade the Holy Office received details of 3,000 Catholic priests reported by their Bishops to Rome for sexual misconduct or, even worse, crimes.

Sixty per cent of these cases involved homosexual acts, 30% related to heterosexual behaviour and only 10% - or 300 priests - were, he said, "actual cases of paedophilia."

This was, of course, too many, Monsignor Scicluna admitted, but he added: "The phenomenon is not as widespread as has been believed."

Priestly misbehaviour

Some of the excuses have been lame, to say the least. For example, Father Lombardi, the official Vatican spokesperson, stressed that the problem of paedophilia is not limited to Church institutions.

He also denied that a "wall of silence" had been erected by Pope Benedict in 2001, when he signed an official Vatican document telling Catholic Bishops around the world to keep secret the details of priestly misbehaviour that they reported to Rome.

This was simply a case of mistranslation of the text, according to Monsignor Scicluna: "The Church does not like to showcase justice, but has never banned the denouncing of crimes to the civil authorities," he said.

Even in Italy, cases of priestly paedophilia are coming out of the woodwork - over 80 of them, according to prosecutors.

In one case, the priest defended himself on the grounds that he sincerely believed it was not sinful for him to have sexual relations - provided it was not with a woman.

The whole problem of sex and the priesthood is now being discussed in a way it never has been before.

For the first time senior Catholic figures are beginning to call publicly for a re-examination of the rule of priestly celibacy.

Some have retracted, clearly on instructions from Rome, but the trend is unmistakeable, and the tipping point may have been reached this year as a result of the Vatican's inability to stem the tide of scandal.



(Post a new comment)


[info]baranduyn
2010-03-18 09:55 pm UTC (link)
Sexual abuse of children =/= gay.

The biggest reason why you have a number of molesters in vestments is because they then have access to children. For generations very few parents would object to a priest being alone with boys while training them to serve as altar boys or in the choir. Some pederasts will do anything to get to kids. Ask any woman with children who finds out her boyfriend isn't really interested in her.

As for the priest who thought it was just sex with women that was prohibited...he's either lying or badly educated or just stupid. Chastity and celibacy means no orgasms, not even self-induced.

It's the hypocracy that's eating the Church alive and I say high time. For years a priest accused of "improprieties" was either defended or just shuffled off elsewhere.

The simplest solution has always been "You're never allowed to be alone with a child." But that would mean the church suspected such things went on. Heaven forfend.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]telegramsam
2010-03-18 10:59 pm UTC (link)
"Sexual abuse of children =/= gay."

I never meant to imply such a thing, I assure you. I apologize if it seemed that way.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sistercoyote
2010-03-18 11:09 pm UTC (link)
I honest to mumble thought that one could be chaste and still have orgasms; one just couldn't have sex.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-18 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]indis_earfalas, 2010-03-19 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2010-03-19 02:47 am UTC

[info]indis_earfalas
2010-03-19 04:20 am UTC (link)
The simplest solution has always been "You're never allowed to be alone with a child." But that would mean the church suspected such things went on. Heaven forfend.

Interesting you say that. It's been a rule in our parish for years; but as soon as someone from the powers-that-be comes along for mass (eg, the arch - and I will not give that man his proper title, he's an arse), the atmosphere changes completely.

I WILL go in that little room off to the side where the kids get changed for altar serving, whether the arch likes it or not ... but fuck, the looks I've gotten.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]baranduyn, 2010-03-19 04:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 01:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]barankhy, 2010-03-20 11:37 am UTC
Oh for...
[info]warchio
2010-03-18 09:56 pm UTC (link)
Whether priests are celibate or not is beside the point. Men are not driven to rape little children because they aren't getting sex elsewhere. They rape little children because they are paedophiles who joined the priesthood for some reason (whether in an attempt to control their urges or as a chance to get into a trusted position with access to small children).

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Oh for...
[info]octavia
2010-03-19 02:08 am UTC (link)
You know, I wonder. I'm sure you're right that pedophiles are drawn to places that have easy access, like some religious orders, but I truly wonder if that's all there is. There's a huge power differential at work as well, I think. And from the reports that are pouring in in my neck of the woods, it seems that abuse and sexual abuse sometimes went hand in hand. I'm not sure how to put this, but I'm not sure that all these men were necessarily that attracted to young boys (or girls), as they might have been attracted to wielding a lot of power and using that for their sexual gratification - the only they can have.

I do happen to think that enforced celibacy can be very unhealthy. Combine it with power and a completely warped vision on what sexuality actually is, which can foster self-hate, and you have a potentially highly toxic cocktail.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Oh for... - [info]ekaterinv, 2010-03-19 02:32 am UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]indis_earfalas, 2010-03-19 03:15 am UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]ekaterinv, 2010-03-19 05:31 am UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]kuromitsu, 2010-03-19 01:01 pm UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 01:04 pm UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]kuromitsu, 2010-03-19 01:25 pm UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2010-03-20 12:02 am UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]octavia, 2010-03-21 06:21 pm UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]kuromitsu, 2010-03-19 01:05 pm UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]octavia, 2010-03-21 06:45 pm UTC
Re: Oh for...
[info]atdelphi
2010-03-20 03:40 pm UTC (link)
They rape little children because they are paedophiles who joined the priesthood for some reason (whether in an attempt to control their urges or as a chance to get into a trusted position with access to small children).

Not to be discounted is the fact that most of these men were probably abused by their own priests. This is not an excuse, of course - no matter how victimhood may warp someone's sexuality, at the end of the day, we all have a choice in how to act - but this is how sexual abuse thrives in closed societies. That is to say, it's usually not that people who just happen to be paedophiles think, "If I can con my way into [group x], then I will have access to children." The association is already there.

If the Catholic Church wants to purge child rape from its midst, then the key is reaching out to the victims. They need to take a loud and public stance that this is not going to be tolerated - not because of what gender the perpetrator and victim were, but because adults forcing or coercing children into sexual contact is wrong. Fire the offenders. Publicly condemn it every single time it arises. Do not put it on the same level as a priest breaking his vows with a consenting adult. Provide real and effective counselling and support for the victims. End the cycle.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]hypno_jango
2010-03-18 10:03 pm UTC (link)
The Daily Show had a segment on this a few days ago.

Holy Sh*t: The Catholic Church punishes Patrick Kennedy for being pro-choice, but takes 20 years to suspend a pedophile priest.

(Reply to this)


[info]sockospice
2010-03-19 01:13 am UTC (link)
This made me headdesk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/fivelivebreakfast/2010/03/are_children_safe_in_the_catho.html
particularly
On his show in Belfast yesterday Stephen Nolan asked Monsignor Maurice Dooley, a priest and friend of Cardinal Brady, if another priest came to him now and told him that he had abused a child, would he report him to the police?
"I would not. I've no obligation to do it in law. I would also regard myself as not having any obligation to do it morally.
"Your conscience is only your brain facing up to a moral question. Now my brain, having taken everything into account almost certainly would say I'm not going to report this matter to the police."

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]telegramsam
2010-03-19 01:45 am UTC (link)
Wow, that's a disgusting attitude.

I guess these priests stop caring about children once they are born, apparently they are only worth protecting if they're still a fetus. >:C

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2010-03-19 02:27 am UTC
Re: Oh for... - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 12:47 pm UTC

[info]quantumreality
2010-03-19 01:16 am UTC (link)
And people wonder why I want the Catholic Church fucking bankrupted.

It's because of depraved shit like this and covering it up. For YEARS.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Long and waffling and pointless. Oh my!
[info]indis_earfalas
2010-03-19 04:10 am UTC (link)
I really don't think you'll have long to wait.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mareen
2010-03-19 04:25 am UTC (link)
What really angers me about the cases in Germany is how the churche's first response was to say a) other people sexually abuse children too! and b) it's all the fault of those evil 68ers.
Of course, none of this was the church's fault. It was all the others.

The Hell?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]weaselistic
2010-03-19 12:38 pm UTC (link)
It really makes me want to quit the Church again, but I already did that last year.

Last year, it was Holocaust denial, this year it's pedophilia. I wonder what the Catholic Church is going to get up to next year.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Oh for... - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 12:49 pm UTC

[info]indis_earfalas
2010-03-19 04:30 am UTC (link)
I can honestly say, as a practising Catholic, that I hate "The Church" at this point. I won't leave my parish, because I do believe in the invisible man and his zombie son, and on a local level it's all good. It's the higher-up's that are cocking it up for everyone else, literally, as had been demonstrated countless times.

Shit like THIS is why individual churches are starting to go broke and why there are hardly any young priests around (ours is the youngest in our area and he's 65 ffs).

During four decades of reporting from the Vatican, I have never seen a graver crisis affecting the very credibility of the leadership of the world's longest surviving international organisation, the Roman Catholic Church.

That can only be a good thing. Maybe they'll finally pull their heads out of their arses ... but I won't hold my breath.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]dodge_and_weave
2010-03-19 11:17 am UTC (link)
Totally. I'm not actively going now, but I miss my church. So much pisses me off though right now about the top of the chain, but the church itself- awesome.

My dad is in his late 60's, has been first gen very active Italian-american Roman Catholic his whole life, and he even says he thinks we're due for a huge fracture. At least in the US, he thinks we might develop a sort of American Catholic that keeps some of the basic beliefs, updates a lot of things for current times, and ignores things coming out of the Vatican.

I was really shocked when he said this knowing how devout he's been.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 12:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dodge_and_weave, 2010-03-19 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-03-19 04:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 04:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]inalasahl, 2010-03-19 05:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-03-19 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bobafeis, 2010-03-19 10:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fionnabhair, 2010-03-22 10:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2010-03-21 04:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-03-21 04:44 pm UTC

[info]senor_pinata
2010-03-19 12:46 pm UTC (link)
Same. I'm not really practicing now (and my very Catholic mother finally switched to my Methodist dad's church anyway) but I've known a ton of wonderful people—priests, nuns, and parishioners—on the local level. But the higher-ups have poisoned the system.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 12:55 pm UTC

[info]ayezur
2010-03-19 02:33 pm UTC (link)
Whacky funfact - I'm being baptized and confirmed in May.

I chose a great time to get in on the action, y/n?

OTOH, as it's been pointed out to me, believing fervently in an ideal while speaking out against the leadership is how most of us stateside got through the last administration.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]inalasahl, 2010-03-19 05:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tianxiaode, 2010-03-19 03:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2010-03-20 04:36 pm UTC

[info]coffee_mug
2010-03-19 12:22 pm UTC (link)
So fucking sickening. I remember watching Deliver Us From Evil, a documentary on the matter, which showed that the Church did nothing but move the accused priest from one parish to another - not far from the old one. Protection of employees over children of church-going families is just so un-Christian..

In the documentary some psychologist whose concentration was sexuality argued that a lot of priests have their sexuality stunted by the Catholic education system, especially if they decide to become priests early on. Of course, the paedophile in focus in this documentary was also a victim and perpetrator of childhood paedophilia & incest (first sex experience with his brother at a young age).

Maybe some things will change .. maybe .. :/

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 01:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]underwaterowl, 2010-03-19 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littleshebear, 2010-03-19 06:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]persona, 2010-03-19 11:07 pm UTC

[info]children_of_lir
2010-03-19 03:31 pm UTC (link)
Guess that NT verse involving "mumble mumble hurting little kids", "big horking millstone around the neck", and "depths of the sea" was just ~*poetic license*~, then.

(Reply to this)


[info]inalasahl
2010-03-19 04:38 pm UTC (link)
Sixty per cent of these cases involved homosexual acts, 30% related to heterosexual behaviour and only 10% - or 300 priests - were, he said, "actual cases of paedophilia."
That's probably a gross misrepresentation, if not a flat-out lie, by the way. For at least the last decade the church's position has been pretty much that if the kid is a teenager (or gone through puberty), it's a homosexual issue, not a pedophile one. So, a large portion of that 60 percent are probably also child molestation/rape cases.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-19 05:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2010-03-19 06:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]inalasahl, 2010-03-19 06:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alyse, 2010-03-19 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2010-03-19 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jackandahat, 2010-03-20 06:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-20 08:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jackandahat, 2010-03-21 08:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-22 03:59 pm UTC

[info]gardnerhill
2010-03-20 01:17 am UTC (link)
Sadly, my 80something daily-Mass parents will go to their graves still tithing and still maintaining that it was all the fault of those lying homosexual kids -- or at most, a very, very few bad apples.

My brother, their oldest son, was abused and ridiculed by his teacher nuns - and when they found out years later, all they said was "Why didn't you TELL us?" (This, after years and years of "Sister/Father is always right" and "You never question a nun/priest," of course.) They never got counseling for their son, because their pastor specifically said not to take him to "a Jewish psychiatrist" who'd make him question his faith.

...And they wonder why so few of their kids will go within 100' of a church now.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2010-03-20 04:45 pm UTC

[info]frequentmouse
2010-03-20 05:17 pm UTC (link)
Having watched from the sidelines as a variety of damaged goods went through the pulpit at the local Catholic church (having spent my childhood in a small town divided down the middle by a path between the gradeschool and the parish hall where the Catholic kids took catachism on Wednesday afternoon): this practice, of shuffling problem priests off to country parishes kept molestors of girls and boys and rapists of adult women, drinking and driving alcoholics (one of my friends lost his leg because the priest drove over him TWICE after 10am Mass), and borderline psychopaths with rage issues who blacked the eyes of the old ladies who cleaned thechurch and the rectory in contact with a ready and easily isolable pool of victims.

Concentrating on the molestation of young boys makes for good headlines, but the damage to the Body of Christ was more extensive and inclusive. People died: directly of assault and car wrecks and indirectly of suicide and cirrhosis of the liver and stress-related illness. And whole families left the Church- from the point of view of The Church atheism and Protestantism and New Age stuff are all equal (It says a lot that the houses of the most pious in my old town are now occupied by people who look to the Ramtha School of Enlightenment).

And the abusive priests are, in a very real way, as much a victim of the cover-up as anyone else, because (from the point of belief) they were encouraged to persist in mortal sin and (from a clinical perspective) had their antisocial and selfdestructive behaviors enabled by the people whowere supposed to be looking out for their welfare.

(Signed, a person whose Catholic family left The Church when the Catholic grandparents died in the 1930s, and whose surviving Uncles tell bitter stories about priests dating back to when they were five and seven).

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-20 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keieeeye, 2010-03-21 01:09 am UTC

[info]ladyofviolets
2010-03-21 12:38 pm UTC (link)
Dear Catholic church:

Stop making me fucking embarrassed of being raised Catholic, please. I'm sick of people going all "THESE FUCKING CATHOLICS SUUUUCK" because the higher-ups are fucktards.

I'm a Catholic and I believe in The Boss Up There and his Guile Hero Zombie Boy. I also am sure they're as "wtf is this BS" as I and other Caths are.

No love,

Me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ladyofviolets, 2010-03-21 12:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-03-21 04:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-23 12:53 pm UTC

[info]fionnabhair
2010-03-22 10:41 pm UTC (link)
I'm kind of amazed that this is only starting to become an international story now. The level of Rage in Ireland about this is beyond anything I've ever seen - which is kind of surprising when you can consider that almost none of the allegations are new exactly. It was more seeing them all collected in one place that made people realize the sheer scale of what went on.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-03-23 12:52 pm UTC

 
   
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