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scifantasy ([info]scifantasy) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2009-03-06 20:20:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Fighting the Derail, or Community Announcement
A Livejournal community has been founded in response to RaceFail 2009 that I think needs as much publicity as it can get. (I'd post it to fandom_lounge if not for the topic being so fundamentally Unfunny Business territory.)

It's called fight_derailing, and I'm going to quote from the introductory post:

"During RaceFail 2009, numerous fans have been working very hard to, first, point out that the Fail is unacceptable, and, second, to return to the conversations that the Fail is an attempt to derail: racism in science fiction and fantasy fictional works and in science fiction and fantasy fandoms.

This community is meant to be a place that rounds up the anti-derailing efforts in a central location for the benefit of those who want to continue the conversations about cultural appropriation, racial diversity and multiculturalism in SFF fiction and fandom, racism in ditto, and its intersectionality with other oppressions. It is not meant to displace existing conversations or efforts, but to be a resource that supports them and enables additional discussion and action."

The moderator is starting up a fundraising effort to help fans of color who want to go to Wiscon, but don't have the resources. She's also gathering background information for a similar fundraiser possibly to take place at Anticipation.

Spread the word.


(Post a new comment)


[info]lilgoala
2009-03-07 02:57 am UTC (link)
Is there a RaceFail 2009 wiki or something? I feel hopelessly out of the loop.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]scifantasy
2009-03-07 02:59 am UTC (link)
The Feminist SF Wiki has a roundup that might help, as well as links to Rydra Wong's list of links, which are probably the most comprehensive.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]julesnoctambule
2009-03-07 08:25 pm UTC (link)
I have absolutely no idea what this is about, but I plan to keep it that way.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lady_ganesh
2009-03-08 03:53 pm UTC (link)
So racism is awesome, then?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]julesnoctambule
2009-03-08 04:10 pm UTC (link)
Because that's exactly what I said.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]lady_ganesh
2009-03-08 04:33 pm UTC (link)
What you said is pretty much that you couldn't care less about the whole thing. It's one of those old silence = consent cliches. I'm sorry, I'm just low on patience today. Personally, when people start outing people because they don't like what they had to say, I start getting interested. And pissed, apparently.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tachikoma01
2009-03-08 05:18 pm UTC (link)
I don't want to speak *for* the previous poster, but I read her comment as "I don't want to muddle through this extremely convoluted 'he said she said he outed she outed' racefail mess in order to figure out what the frack is going on, and I have no interest in putting that much work into figuring out a wank." (I had to ask a couple of people who had been following this more closely than I had before I could grasp what was going, and even then I'm not sure I do, because different sides tell the 'facts' of the story differently.)

Not "I don't care about racism."

That would be like saying anyone who doesn't care about the latest 'homosexuals are okay in fiction but not in real life' wank doesn't care about gay rights, or that someone who doesn't care about the latest Loli-con wank doesn't care about stopping pedophilia.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]lady_ganesh
2009-03-08 05:24 pm UTC (link)
Like I said, I'm pretty low on patience overall with this whole thing, and knee-jerked my comment.

But I will point out that when people's real identities are getting outed and a professional editor warns that people will face consequences if she recognizes their names at work, then it's a bit more than the latest 'homosexuals are okay in fiction but not in real life' stupidity.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tachikoma01
2009-03-08 11:47 pm UTC (link)
I'm as incised as the rest of fandom at the 'outing being used to just make those pesky minorities shut up.' And if there's something specific I can do to fix the problem, I'll do it. Like a google farming campaign to de-link coffeeandink's online name from her real name, tell me how and I'll help.

But there's this huge convoluted backstory before you even get to the outing, and I can't bring myself to blame people for not wanting to follow the two-mile-long slow train of fail.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-03-09 12:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scifantasy, 2009-03-10 02:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]microclimate, 2009-03-10 02:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scifantasy, 2009-03-10 02:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]microclimate, 2009-03-10 03:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scifantasy, 2009-03-10 03:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-03-10 05:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]microclimate, 2009-03-10 05:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-03-10 05:33 pm UTC

[info]julesnoctambule
2009-03-08 08:30 pm UTC (link)
Pretty much, that's it. And thanks for actually thinking about what I said instead of instantly going on the attack.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]julesnoctambule
2009-03-08 08:29 pm UTC (link)
The outing I can't support to any degree, but I'm not even touching the rest of it. The last time I tried participating in any kind of so-called anti-racism talk, I was told that my experiences growing up in a (very happy) multi-ethnic family were 'invalidating to others' and 'irrelevant to the discussion', so I have trouble giving much of a damn these days.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tachikoma01
2009-03-08 11:16 pm UTC (link)
I also agree that the outing was completely uncalled for. And I do care about racism in the sci-fi community, especially when it prevents the advancement of authors/artists of minorities. But I kind of feel like... both sides have made such asses of themselves at this point that any legitimate points about racism have been lost in the butt-hattery.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tachikoma01
2009-03-08 11:52 pm UTC (link)
[Which is to say, I AGREE that the discussion of racism aspect needs to be decoupled from the outing. We need to talk about racism in fandom, but most of what people are talking about is specifically about the outing, and not what lead up to it. Which I'm sure is even more frustrating for people who do want to talk about racism in fandom, because the debate has been sidelined by the outing of one specific person, and the larger issue has kind of been lost.]

By no means has a legitimate point been invalidated by ass hatting, but the discussion needs to happen separate from the ass hatting because that's all people coming from outside the debate will see. Like how news footage of a peaceful 1,000 person protest will focus on the two people who set fire to a dumpster during the otherwise safe event.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lab, 2009-03-09 12:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scifantasy, 2009-03-09 02:46 pm UTC

[info]julesnoctambule
2009-03-09 01:09 am UTC (link)
There can come a point where pretty much everyone on either side of an issue starts to suck, really.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2009-03-09 05:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]julesnoctambule, 2009-03-09 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-03-09 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]microclimate, 2009-03-09 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-03-09 08:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-03-09 09:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]veleda_k, 2009-03-10 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-03-10 04:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-03-09 10:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kittikattie, 2009-03-10 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damisi, 2009-03-10 03:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2009-03-10 09:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-03-10 04:58 pm UTC

ariadne484
2009-03-09 03:19 pm UTC (link)
he last time I tried participating in any kind of so-called anti-racism talk, I was told that my experiences growing up in a (very happy) multi-ethnic family were 'invalidating to others' and 'irrelevant to the discussion',

I am sorry that people said terrible things to you. I was going to list some of the things people have told me, but I realized it would have seemed like an Oppression Competition.

But, the thing is: is bigotry okay because people have been twits? If people aren't unfailingly nice do they then deserve it? I don't agree with the people who have shut you out of the discussion, but I would hate to see you support those trying to shut me out because of them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]julesnoctambule, 2009-03-09 04:37 pm UTC

[info]inalasahl
2009-03-09 11:57 pm UTC (link)
I've been trying to think of a response, but luckily wistfuljane said it better than I could.

I have no idea what you meant, but that's how it sounded to me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


tree
2009-03-10 12:05 am UTC (link)
Off-topic: is LJ acting up for anyone else? I keep clicking the links but only end up with a blank page even though Firefox says 'done' and the URL is there as if it had loaded.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]inalasahl
2009-03-10 01:47 am UTC (link)
I had the same problem earlier, but seems to be fixed now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]veleda_k
2009-03-10 05:33 am UTC (link)
Thank you for sharing that with the class.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lysana
2009-03-11 12:12 am UTC (link)
That is one of the tidiest pieces of wankstarter I've seen come along in a little while. Brilliant work.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]julesnoctambule
2009-03-11 02:46 am UTC (link)
I'm so very glad you liked it; I do aim to please.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


ariadne484
2009-03-08 01:03 am UTC (link)
Thank you for announcing this. I know some fans couldn't care less if SF&F fandom is completely bleached, but some of us do care.

(Reply to this)


[info]sadisticferret
2009-03-10 02:28 am UTC (link)
My mind is too foggy to really process what's going on right now, but my default position tends to be on whichever side is fighting racism, so...yeah. I also hate the mindset of "both sides fail, so neither is right and I'm not gonna bother caring," but not quite as much as I hate how "both sides are wanky" seems to be the default mindset of so many people, whether it's true in a given case or not. It is entirely possible for one side to be in the right and the other to not only be wrong, but to be complete asshats about it as well.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lysana
2009-03-11 12:15 am UTC (link)
Bingo. I've been poking around RaceFail09 over the last few days, and the dismissal of the entire anti-racism set of people under the "you're all wanking" rubric is giving me almost as much annoyance as the people who insisted Obama and McCain were almost indistinguishable once you got past race and age. I realized that it boils down to hot buttons. Yet another argument that turns into a wildfire that takes out multiple online fora has to be wanktastic on both sides of the line the same way the Dems and Repubs both have to be pushing similar agendas because they used to.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sadisticferret
2009-03-11 12:50 am UTC (link)
I really think that the only reason people say shit like that so that they can feel justified in not taking the effort to care and/or educate themselves.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


 
   
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