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melannen ([info]melannen) wrote in [info]unfunnybusiness,
@ 2008-04-22 17:40:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current location:a lesbian separatist utopia
Current mood:Gobsmacked
Current music:Kermit the Frog - It's Not Easy Being Green
Entry tags:oh john ringo no

OH JOHN RINGO NO
The Open Source Boobs Project: Dear sir: I believe your patriarchy is showing.

The second post linked there had comments disabled, with a pointer to comment at the first post. The first post now has two heidipologies appended to the top, and he somehow managed to delete all 1300+ comments accidentally in the process of locking them. (Despite having been on LJ since forever and hosting many popular discussions.) I have a few of the upper-level pages in cache; anybody have more? ETA:Comments appear to be back for now; you can now follow comment links in peoples' posts.

For those of you who have been lucky enough not to see this yet, basically, some SF fans were trying to start a utopian project where anybody wearing a green "Yes, you may" button may be punched in the face for being gratuitously stupid. (And a slightly more hard-core swift kick to the balls version.)

It spreads: (These links all have lots of good discussion in comments too.)
Coffeandink's response
Kate-nepveu's response
Springheel-jack's response
the-red-shoes's response
brown_betty's response, and a poll
nestra's response
cereta's response
Mystickeeper summarizes
Rachel Manija's response part 2
thebratqueen's response
elynross's response
seperis's response
ojouchan's response
movies-michelle brings out the big guns
go-go-gidget/rowleyorama's response
pixelfish's response
pleonoastic's response
blueraccoon's response
oulangi's response
RivkaT on Open Source and the Endowment Effect
plasticsturgeon's Open Source African Hair Project
sparkymonster, compiled.
giandujakiss part 1 and part 2
tablesaw's lj post
liz-marcs's post
James Nicoll host a discussion
The ladies at Dear Author
cynthia1960, with bonus fuckwittery in the comments
novapsyche, who participated and thought it was a neat idea ... until she read theferrett's post and got the details
auryn29a ran a poll (please don't flood it, she's not one of us)
shoutingboy asks about open-license pictures of boobs, and gets answers
pantryslut concisely explains why it doesn't work that way.
mcsnee, for a view of the other side
serenejournal hosts a discussion
vito-excalibur starts the Women Back Each Other Up Project also, free icon!
rhienelleth tells it like it is
deepad understands about red buttons
caras-galadhon part one and two
sorchar's response
darkrosetiger's response
ceteramisto's response
seiberwing's response
ginmar!
Tamora Pierce's response
crevette's response
Mr. Goodwraith wants to touch your dolls.
timjr offers a straight geek male's guide to interacting with females.
from furikku, we can has macro!
synecdochic noodles around; How not to be That Guy
blessed-harlot wants people to think about the supporters' feelings
trinityva concurs
amanuensis thinks about utopia
ninevah-uk writes Lord Peter fic
immlass part 1 part 2 part 3 and a bingo card!
nicked-metal's response
uppityliberal's response
desdenova's response
snurri Is Concise
delux-vivens's response
Karnythia part 1 part 2 part 3
cbpotts has two daughters
nihilistic-kid's response
fengi's response
elusis's response
sinboy's response
lauredhel's roundup
perpetual-lent's response
emmelinemay's response
Netmouse gives another participant's view
ladyjax's response
desdenova's response
isako/isa's response
glvalentine offers a PSA
k. tempest bradford's response
wicked-sock's response
miriammoules's response
chash's response
shaysday's response
mlleelizabeth's response
kita0610 is poetic
emrinalexander's response
ursulav's response
The mst3k comm suggets Open Source Torgo
Highwaywest: Jason's Guide to Con Flirting
...And Auntie Penknife's Guide to Flirting for Men
bad-goth wonders why we are teaching them to flirt
nevermore999's response
the-rook's response
sf_drama is full of drama.
The dragon*con lj comm is also full of drama
all (117 185 237!) searchable lj posts which link to the original... (There are around a hundred of them linked here as of one week later. Those are a) from fic fandom or journalfen people; b) widely linked; and/or c) do something notably different from others.)
Cheapass games forum. I think I'm most boggled by the fact that they're *spoiler-cutting* the ending.
Jezebel joins in
Get Off The Internet wants to borrow some lye
Pandagon
punkassblog
Hoyden About Town
designated sidekick does some kicking
Bookworm's response
i bloviate talks about slut-shaming (btw, if anybody actually saw people doing this? show us the links, 'cause that's not on, sister.)
Slog at The Stranger
naamenblog is incredulous
Karen Healey at Girls Read Comics - And They're Pissed
GWOG responds
You Are Dumb responds
Occasional Superheroine responds
Me And My Red Stapler responds
Written World responds
Smart Bitches, Trashy Books responds
Rusty-halo's response
Feminist SF - The Blog speaks up
Feministing throws in
Scalzi's response part 2
Oh boy, metafilter is here!
Randy Milholland has T-shirts!
the abortive otf_wank post - DO NOT COMMENT THERE - this is *so* not funny (crotch-kicking aside) - but it's a pretty good write-up if you want more than bare links. ETA: Comment all you want, with mod approval. It now features a boobie train. Hooray?

Comment thread links, readable for now:
Loligo makes an excellent suggestion, followed by excellent discussion.
Tablesaw is win.
More face-punching. (I wonder why so many people were thinking along those lines?)
mswyrr is also win.
sparkymonster explains cloven oranges.
He has addedThe court of public opinion has added tags to the entry now. o boy.
A LOLFerrett from robin_ma

A list of penguicon con reports - there were also giant pirate ships and singing Tesla coils there!

ETA: Just added a bunch more response links (I find wank migration patterns fascinating, I can't stop looking) and there are twoa few I want to point out in particular:
vito-excalibur and the Women Back Each Other Up Project: "I would like to propose a little real world help for a real world problem."
Back-up follow-up: We Has T-shirts and buttons! (There will be fliers!); Men's Auxiliary; Why men are only auxiliary; It's About the Problem.
novapsyche, for a perspective from someone who actually wore a green button: "if I'd read theferrett's post about OSBP before someone offered me the pin, I would have turned it down."
nineveh-uk writes Harriet Vane & co. vs. OSBP: ‘And then someone started going on about post-lapsarian inhibition, and how the only free soul was in a free body -’
The Boobie Project entry on Feminist SF - The Wiki, which has a great link round-up with chronology and edit history and commentary and things!
the-red-shoes collects soundbites! "Should fit on a t-shirt."

LAST ETA: I have just disabled anon comments; porn spam has started arriving faster than legit discussion, sorry. If any anons want to keep talking, well, you can get a JF account!

Will be adding more links as I find them (feel free to drop them in comments); but as much of the great discussion was in the comments of the OP and is now gone, I wanted to get this up as soon as possible. ETA: Now adding more links. If you don't want your post linked, ask and it's gone.

Discuss!




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(Post a new comment)


[info]melannen
2008-04-22 09:55 pm UTC (link)
So - honestly, I don't have an "oh eww" reaction at the very idea of this, because I've been working on my issues with touch for awhile, and the concept of doing something like this, with a clear no-expectations rule pre-stated, in private, with people I already trust, might actually be kind of nice.

But A) That is not something you do in public space not designated for it, which *already* have a reputation for making women feel unsafe;

B) that is not something you proselytize about spreading to the whole world (or your several-thousand-strong flist, either).

C) especially without thinking it through first, and

D) HOW DOES HE NOT REALIZE HOW COMPLETELY FUCKING SKEEVY HIS WHOLE POST CAME OFF? OMG. No, you do not say "touching lots of womens' breasts was like a dream come true for my high school self!" if you are all about empowering women. Just -- no. Not to mention 90% of the other stuff in that post - and the fact that he never *once* mentions how breast-fondling feels to the people being fondled, just what it does for the fondlers.

No, the retractions did not help. Suggesting that women go to wiscon instead but you won't be there, since it doesn't interest you : also unhelpful. Saying that you will now have to stop going to cons in order to protect the poor fragile wommins from being threatened by you: severely missing the point.

Also, when you say "I'd be fine if I was the one being fondled, but who'd want to fondle my manboobs? *chuckle*" I want you to think about that statement, and consider what it tells you about differences in the ways men's and women's bodies are treated in our society.

... I could go on, but I feel much better now already!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aristaea, 2008-04-22 11:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2008-04-23 02:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vito_excalibur, 2008-04-23 01:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2008-04-23 05:13 am UTC

[info]ealusaid
2008-04-22 10:24 pm UTC (link)
A++ on your subject heading. That's perfect.

And this kind of stuff is why I'm too afraid to go to cons.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2008-04-23 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiki, 2008-04-23 02:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]athy, 2008-04-23 07:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiki, 2008-04-23 09:39 pm UTC
... - [info]athy, 2008-04-25 05:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]teapotgirl, 2008-04-24 06:14 am UTC
... - [info]athy, 2008-04-25 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shaysdays, 2008-04-25 08:31 am UTC
... - [info]athy, 2008-04-25 05:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2008-04-23 05:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]altera, 2008-04-24 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2008-04-24 02:23 am UTC
... - [info]altera, 2008-04-24 02:35 am UTC
... - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2008-04-24 02:38 am UTC
... - [info]altera, 2008-04-24 03:16 am UTC
... - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2008-04-24 03:23 am UTC
... - [info]altera, 2008-04-24 03:27 am UTC
... - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2008-04-24 03:32 am UTC
... - [info]altera, 2008-04-24 03:36 am UTC
... - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2008-04-24 03:47 am UTC
... - [info]altera, 2008-04-24 03:52 am UTC
Not My Boobies - [info]darkrose, 2008-04-24 12:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]msmanna, 2008-04-24 03:52 pm UTC

[info]j_crew_guy
2008-04-22 11:01 pm UTC (link)
Comments are back, but he's frozen all comment threads. Quick, someone grab caps before he changes his mind again!

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-04-22 11:27 pm UTC (link)
Anyone who tries that on me will find it awfully difficult to touch my breasts with their broken fingers.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2008-04-23 12:50 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-04-23 02:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2008-04-23 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smashingstars, 2008-04-23 03:28 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-04-23 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-04-23 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-04-24 06:13 pm UTC

[info]chaimonkey
2008-04-22 11:28 pm UTC (link)
First off - damn that man not only writes skeevy, but he looks the part too. D:

Why are only women getting groped? If you want to posture yourself as egalitarian or open-minded, there needs to be a give to go along with that take. And no, being the fondler does not count.

Here, then, I propose: For every strange man that gets to tough my boobs, I get to slap or otherwise injure him. Because as far as desires go, that would be mine.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chaimonkey, 2008-04-22 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigi, 2008-04-23 12:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]julian_black, 2008-04-23 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaimonkey, 2008-04-23 01:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]coffee_mug, 2008-04-23 01:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2008-04-23 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-04-26 05:26 pm UTC

[info]hallidae
2008-04-22 11:32 pm UTC (link)
... ::skeeeeeeved::

(Reply to this)


[info]miraba
2008-04-23 12:30 am UTC (link)
I agree with pretty much everything that Tablesaw says.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iwanttobeasleep, 2008-04-23 01:44 am UTC

[info]t_boy
2008-04-23 12:37 am UTC (link)
Scalzi's response is supposed to be here: http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=650; you're linking to Scalzi's main blog page. Reading that now.

I skimmed the main entry and took a look at the OP's icon, and LOLed; I'm surprised that more people didn't think this wasn't skeevy.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! XD - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-23 12:41 am UTC
Re: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! XD - [info]notjo, 2008-04-24 12:13 am UTC
Re: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! XD - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-24 12:38 am UTC
Re: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! XD - [info]notjo, 2008-04-24 12:40 am UTC
... - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-24 01:07 am UTC
... - [info]melannen, 2008-04-24 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2008-04-23 02:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-04-26 12:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-26 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-04-26 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-27 02:47 am UTC
... - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-04-27 03:50 am UTC
... - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-04-27 03:52 am UTC

[info]queencallipygos
2008-04-23 12:45 am UTC (link)
At the risk of painting a big bulls-eye on my butt....

I actually have read a lot of other things written by this guy, and I must dissent with the notion that he is skeevy. More like possessing-of-an-aging-hippie's-utopian-sense-of-sexuality. But that, in and of itself, isn't skeevy. Unconventional, yeah, but...not skeevy.

I'm a bit sad that for many, this is the first they've heard of him; he's actually written some wonderful things. He's actually very good.

As for his views on things sexual? I hung out on an adult themed bbs for years, and it sounds more like he'd fit in with that kind of crowd; a relaxed attitude towards it all. Some people wanted to go further than others, but usually all it took was "sorry, I dont' want to do that" to set them straight. The people who pushed it got their asses handed to them.

Pretty much the only thing I can fault him for in this is in talking about it outside the context of those like-minded folks who want to engage. Yeah, my crowd went to a strip club every week, and maybe had some daisy-chaining hook-ups going on, but we...didn't talk about it too much with people outside the group, because that wasn't their bag, really. But if any of us had a blog, we may talk about it a little. Maybe under a filter, but we may talk about it.

All he did was just forget to restrict this to a closed audience, and I don't think this makes him skeevy, just...optimistic. And I can't fault him for that.

Not that I'm saying that those who don't go in for this kind of thing are prudes, either. It just ain't your thing; great. Slash ain't my thing, I can respect the "this isn't my thing" thing.

So -- my contribution to the discussion is that it looks like he just got caught up in something, forgot to restrict the audience, and it bit him in the ass. And no, I don't feel that makes him skeevy, misogynistic, creepy, horny, desperate, or anything like that. Just...someone who forgot how many people he was talking to when he got all excited about something. I can forgive that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2008-04-23 12:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-04-23 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2008-04-23 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-04-23 01:40 am UTC
... - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-23 01:46 am UTC
... - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-04-23 02:01 am UTC
... - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-23 02:03 am UTC
... - [info]chaimonkey, 2008-04-23 02:11 am UTC
... - [info]caito, 2008-04-23 05:38 am UTC
... - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-04-23 07:29 am UTC
... - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-23 07:30 am UTC
... - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-04-23 07:50 am UTC
... - [info]t_boy, 2008-04-23 08:05 am UTC
... - [info]deliciouschaos, 2008-04-23 05:33 pm UTC
... - [info]chaimonkey, 2008-04-23 02:03 am UTC
... - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-04-23 02:08 am UTC
... - [info]chaimonkey, 2008-04-23 02:12 am UTC
... - [info]frequentmouse, 2008-04-23 02:14 am UTC
... - [info]chaimonkey, 2008-04-23 03:34 am UTC
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... - [info]chaimonkey, 2008-04-23 04:09 am UTC
... - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-04-23 05:55 am UTC
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