(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

Re: *rewrites to be less wanky*
vanceone
2006-04-25 02:08 am UTC (link)

I have e-cred? *dies laughing* I highly doubt I'll ever have anything approaching respectibility, except among some H/Hr shippers. It's not even worth trying for, since unless we turn out to be right and book 7 IS H/Hr, I in particular will always be held up as the epitome of insane H/Hr shippers. And most likely then, too. Besides, I still don't like the concept of F_W.

As for playing up alot of what you said, you had the decency to apologize, so I wasn't going to target you. Narcissa, sadly, hardly posted at all.

Re: *rewrites to be less wanky*

esclaramonde
2006-04-25 02:15 pm UTC (link)

I have e-cred? *dies laughing* I highly doubt I'll ever have anything approaching respectibility, except among some H/Hr shippers.

If you had written the wank report to be unbiased, a) people not involved in HP would have agreed with you about just who's being wanky and b) those of us who know you from the STFU would have had to admit that you can be impartial. I bet that

estrella and

flyingphoenix probably think I backtrack and lie all over the place (which isn't true, I'm just got a terrifically bad memory for things I've said, even when it's just a few minutes ago), but I don't go, "They think I lie already, so I'm just going to lie a whole lot now." It's like the way my brother thinks that all his teachers are comparing him to me, so he does much worse in school.

I in particular will always be held up as the epitome of insane H/Hr shippers.

No, I don't think so. Stic and JKR-should-have-died and CreamTea are probably the ones that fill that spot. You're just seen as the one that won't give up when you should, won't respond to questions, and martyrs himself unnecessarily. But not insane.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *rewrites to be less wanky*
vanceone
2006-04-25 04:12 pm UTC (link)

But the entire "Write it to be less biased" thing is a bit odd. I really don't see how what I wrote is any different in style than a Narcissa report on Harmonians. I tried to model it after one of her reports. I linked to everything, I looked it over carefully to make sure I wasn't saying anything really outrageous. Why is it that I have to be completely ship neutral, when she is not?

You rewrote my wank post to only mention generic HP fanfic authors. As if this was just any random fanfiction author. But the author here is a rather well-known fan, who also is a H/G shipper. She takes it just as seriously as any Harmonian (as witnessed by her Granger spat Narcissa refuses to wank). If this had been Lori's POU fic, or some prominent H/Hr fanfiction, I know it would have come up as an example of "harmonian outrage" again. And you wouldn't have said a word, would you? In addition, much of this wank WAS about shipping. All the "you target her cause she's H/G" stuff. Should I have simply ignored it? That's a good rule, then. Yes, ignore any and all shipping wank. If you can make that universal, I would be MORE than happy to comply.

If you think what I wrote is grudgy, ship based wank then perhaps you shouldn't be surprised when I think you and Narcissa are the exact same. I deliberately modeled my report directly on numerous posts of hers targeting Harmonians. I tried to follow her model. If that means I'm biased, well, I admit it. But when will Narcissa admit hers then? Almost all of her posts contain far more Harmony bashing than is necessary. If I am supposed to never make snide comments about H/G shippers, etc, then I expect you to take her to task as well.

If you don't, then this is more evidence that you hold OBHWF shippers and Harmonians to different codes of conduct. Why should Harmonians never be allowed to target their opposition, while if you are a OBHWF shipper you can say whatever you want? This is the same thing you were doing to Estrella in the wank--assuming that if a known H/Hr shipper says anything or points anything out about a H/G shipper, it's due to shipping or other evil motive. Well, if that's the case, then I expect you to complain just as much when Corbin and Ikuko say anything bad, or make random comments etc. about any H/Hr shipper. Or Mrs. Bombadil, Angua, etc.

As for Stic, thankfully he seems to be gone. And Creamtea is a Ginny/Draco shipper, I believe, not a H/Hr one.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *rewrites to be less wanky*

esclaramonde
2006-04-25 05:59 pm UTC (link)

really don't see how what I wrote is any different in style than a Narcissa report on Harmonians.

Well, first off, NM's posts are in a community about Harmonians (and Dan/Emma/Rupert ships, apparently). Second ... I'm looking at her posts, and they really are not that biased. Yes, they say, "Look at these wanky Harmonians," but they don't go on and on about how awful Harmonians in general are. Let's look at NM's latest posts: Rupert/Emma craziness (what is it with the people who ship these kids, anyway? Why are they all mad?); Dan/Emma craziness; Lissy; a copied wank report. The first two aren't what we're talking about (don't mention Harmonians), and the last isn't written by NM. So, Lissy's: it's just a list of summarized comparisons Lissy's made.

You didn't need to keep pushing the fact that she ships H/G - that's half of what did you in. I can see why you had it at first - that was okay, I suppose. But "the aforementioned Harry/Ginny shipper" was overkill, as was "the H/G author herself" - we GOT it, she ships H/G, H/G-ers can be wanky. And then "I guess if a known H/Hr shipper points it out, it cannot be wanky (a H/Hr shipper noticing wank makes it nonwanky? Who knew?), or it's the H/Hr shippers fault for pointing it out" was just asking to get eyerolls, because THAT is exactly the sort of thing you are remembered for.

(At any rate, I didn't say it couldn't be wanky because she noticed it, I thought she was trying to get someone else to post it. I'm still not sure that it was entirely innocent (that she thought "post it" meant in the comments) but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.)

She takes it just as seriously as any Harmonian

Takes what?

I know it would have come up as an example of "harmonian outrage"

What would have come up?

And you wouldn't have said a word, would you?

About what?? The pronouns, they hurt me!

All the "you target her cause she's H/G" stuff.

I'm fairly sure I'm the only one who insinuated that. And I said in a post a little ways down that I had joined Esi's post to the ones you've made in my JF about Barb and overreacted and snapped. I don't think she's "targeted" because she likes H/G, I think she's more prominent and thus more likely to get involved in things. I am going to make an admission: wank reporting is biased. But it isn't on ship lines: it's on interest. If I have the choice of reporting an essay that gives out-of-context "proof" that shows that Hagrid and Madame Maxime are a metaphor and affirmation that the series will end with H/Hr or not reporting anything, I'll probably report the essay because it's hilarious, esp. if the comments are full of "OMG that's sooo good!" and squashed disagreement, because funny > lazy. If I have the choice between reporting an essay I don't feel like reading and I don't care about (because I pretty much don't care about H/G meta) or not reporting anything, I probably won't, because that's like work and lazy > boring.

Almost all of her posts contain far more Harmony bashing than is necessary.

Show me. Point me to the bashing she's done in the report. A lot of people make an unbiased report and then say what they like in the comments, but that's completely different. And when people make biased reports that have nothing to do with HP or shipping, they get busted too.

This is the same thing you were doing to Estrella in the wank--assuming that if a known H/Hr shipper says anything or points anything out about a H/G shipper, it's due to shipping or other evil motive.

NO. I thought she was doing what you do, ie, pointing out something wanky (or not) an OBHWF supporter does to make me or NM post it instead of having the guts to post it yourself and take the "OMG this isn't wanky" comments if they come.

Well, if that's the case, then I expect you to complain just as much when Corbin and Ikuko say anything bad, or make random comments etc. about any H/Hr shipper. Or Mrs. Bombadil, Angua, etc.

You are not getting the point. Nobody cares what is said in the comments. It's the report that matters.

And Creamtea is a Ginny/Draco shipper, I believe, not a H/Hr one.

Ah. I thought she was Harmonian, as it got picked up by Harmonians.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *rewrites to be less wanky*

miss_sophia
2006-04-25 04:28 pm UTC (link)

Besides, I still don't like the concept of F_W.

And yet you're posting wank.

Don't get me wrong--I think it's dandy you're finally posting wank of your own, even though there's a clear fragrance of grudgewank in the bouquet. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy here.

Narcissa, sadly, hardly posted at all.

Statements like this only strengthen l'air du grudge.

And I'll second what

principessa said about you not being the craziest H/Hr shipper out there. You're way too fixated on the canon aspect of shipping, but you seem like a nice enough person, and you don't spew hatred towards anyone as far as I can tell. It almost makes me feel bad for using this icon, but then again, this is fandom, and you seem smart enough to be able to tell the difference between a personal attack and an attack on wanky fannish behavior.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *rewrites to be less wanky*
vanceone
2006-04-25 05:07 pm UTC (link)

And I thought long about posting, given those previous statements of mine. But the sad thing is, it was going to be wanked here anyway. No doubt about it. And everyone was so tiresomely calling for it to be posted--and making rude comments about how I was chicken for not posting, etc. Even though I was not in the wank itself. So, I decided to do it--and await the inevitable "grudgewank" comments. You didn't think I didn't know this would happen? The fact that I'm perceived as grudgewanking, while others who post anti-harmonian screeds get away with it, is also hypocritical, I would say.

I don't like the concept of F_W. Picking people out randomly and mocking them just because is a stupid idea, both petty and cruel. What have they done to you? In this case, though, pretty much most of those I was mocking have said things or otherwise put themselves into a category where I don't feel bad. They've said and done things about me or several of my close shipmates that were pretty personal. Should I not have posted it? Likely so. But someone else would have, and pointed directly at it all being a H/Hr shippers fault, somehow.

I think, if you look back, since last July, at least, this is the very first time any H/Hr shipper has posted anything regarding shipping on a F_W comm. Naturally it's radically different than the normal, casual assumption of OBHWF shippers being completely right in everything they do. The times that assumption was broken were reported on by people sympathetic to those ships. Yet, people who dislike H/Hr shippers are the ones posting most of the harmonian wanks. If you look at my post and compare it with some of the Harmonian ones, I doubt you'd see much difference; except that the positions are reversed here. I did try to pretty much copy the style of a Harmonian wank report; both in links, style and in tone. If that makes me sound grudgy, well, then what does that say about whom I'm copying from?

As for grudgewank--if you complain about me, then I expect you to complain about those who bring in Harmonians, or me, when I'm not involved.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *rewrites to be less wanky*

miss_sophia
2006-04-25 07:05 pm UTC (link)

The reason people are calling grudgewank is that you turned a situation that was hella wanky on its own into shipping wank. Yes, some of the big-name people who wank Harmonians showed up, but, at least as far as I can tell, it was only this thread that contained any anti-H/Hr commentary.

principessa and

narcissam in particular didn't say anything about Harmonians, at least not on any of the threads that you linked in your report.

I imagine that you likely have problems with the said anti-H/Hr commentary, and I suppose that's fair enough. However, that was just a tiny part of the wank; the main point was that people were arguing over an author's right, or lack thereof, to sell his or her fanfic, particularly at a price that's higher than that of canon. I think that had you added something like "And, of course, Harmonians are brought into the kerfluffle for their requisite beatdown" towards the end instead of making most of your report about shipping, the cries of grudgewank would have been far more muted. Yes, you'd probably still have gotten a reaction, because of your fandom history, but I think it would have been quieter. I, for one, would have had to concede the point to you in that case. I enjoy making fun of Harmonians (well, really, of any sector of fandom that is up with the batshit, even people on my own ship (R/S); Harmonians are just some of the most prominent crazies), but I would've agreed with you in this case.

And I can sympathize with your urge to wank the situation yourself, especially since people have been urging you to report wank for a while, but if you truly don't like the idea of laughing at stupidity in fandom (fair enough; that's your choice), then it seems best to me that you just don't bother with F_W. I'm not saying I want you to leave; I have no problem with you at all. I'm just pointing out the logical conclusion of an argument.

Overall, I say good on ya for posting the wank. Just tighten up your style a little, try to see the forest through the trees (again, the situation was wanky mainly for non-shipping reasons) and you'll be just fine. Maybe we'll make nicer icons about you. ;)

As for grudgewank--if you complain about me, then I expect you to complain about those who bring in Harmonians, or me, when I'm not involved.

Absolutely agreed, as long as we're both clear on the difference between grudgewank and general mocking. Grudgewank is when you wank someone not so much for something truly wanky the person did, but rather because you take issue with the person in the first place. Alternatively, it can take the form of wanking someone for doing something truly wanky, but focusing the wank report on a mainly unrelated problem you have with them from the past (like you did here). General mocking is bringing up past absurdities in the context of pointing and laughing (at the same issue or at another one). I'd try to be clearer about it, but I'm on the verge of being late for class. However, I'm glad to clarify further later, if you'd like.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: rewrites to be less wanky phosfate 2006-04-25 05:48 pm UTC (link)
	I have e-cred? You could've made a start. Besides, I still don't like the concept of F_W. And. Yet. You. Posted. Wank. Right. I'm gonna show my disdain for childfree by making a post there about public breastfeeding. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Read comments) -