Okay, taking this in parts. And I'm happy you feel comfortable enough with me to babble; don't worry, I'm used to the verbose. Not only can I get rather wordy, but a number of my other friends love to just go on too. XD

First, the SenBasa stuff!

Ahahaha, you sound like me. I have my favorite charas for sure that I'd pick first if given a choice, but I do love nearly everyone and I find myself fangirling whoever is on my screen at the moment orz. And if I don't love them, then I'm just ambivalent, so there's really no one I OMGHAET. Though I'm a bit more picky about my ships than you, but ffffff.

ffffff i have to keep myself from saying spoilers about sb3 nnnghhhh but maybe you'll ship keiji with someone over everyone else once you play his routes

and yes oichi's story is so sad, especially if you go lord happy route (she got a great story in sb2h as well, as she was the only one with a "true" ending--in all honesty, the anime just spat on her character

and yes mago is totally amazing

and tsuru-chan is totally hilarious (most of fandom hates her though)

I think Capcom made the SenBasa games generally easy because of its Misaimed Fandom audience. That said, it's still fun to play, due to all the branching paths and little scenes here and there; getting new skills and items really keeps adding more to the gameplay.

And yes, kuromitsu said something similar about how the anime was handled and I do agree with you and her; it still doesn't stop me from being salty that all the characters I like get thrown aside or ignored. =( I think that's why I leeched onto SB3 so much; all the characters I was interested in are suddenly doing stuff! And they're cool! Fuck yeah!

As for Nari and Chika, game-wise I think most of their UST comes from SB2. The rest of it is the aesthetic, which seems to really appeal to Japanese fans, as Setouchi seems to be, by far, the most popular yaoi pairing from SenBasa, even over DateSana.

SB3 did make me an OTP fan though--I didn't really care much before (I saw them shoe-horned together in fiction as a subpairing, but often so badly written that it wasn't interesting), but playing Nari's blue path and Chika's green path made me go "OH MY GOD THEY ARE SO GAAAAAYYYY" orz

I'm actually pretty ambivalent toward DateSana! I think Kojuuro/Masamune is pretty interesting, though I don't see myself actively shipping it, but I find DateSana to be generally a bit of a boring rivalry. XD Which is hilarious, because I was reading DateSana fiction before becoming a SenBasa fan! But canon-wise, I was pretty disappointed by their chemistry in both anime and SB3--it didn't capture me.

(I also became more disillusioned by Masamune too, the more I became exposed to various SenBasa media. He's on the lower end of my "interest" factor when it comes to the cast. orz)

*rolls* I don't want to say too much until you've gotten a chance to play more...

ahn. why don't have a senbasa icon :<

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Haha, maybe the reason I'm so chatty with you and my other friends is to make up for all the times I take a turn for the socially akward or easily embarassed. XD I think I've been getting a little bit better at the non-nerdy day-to-day small talk with strangers thanks to the job, though.

LOL, actually, I think I'm just not picky about ships yet - I'm sure the only reason I'm this open to any of them right now is because I haven't played/watched enough to settle down and become "truly" enamored with just a couple that really hit the right buttons in terms of their chemistry (not to mention their visual appeal for me) - in fact, I think Slayers was a tiny bit like that for me at the very beginning (before settling down with my top pairing choices and a choice few secondary ones), though I think I made up my mind about those way faster. Maybe it was the fact that I saw the entire series (well, what was then the entire series) almost back-to-back, with practically no interruption, and also had more free time available to let it all sink in quicker.

So basically, with SenBasa, I'm just fooling around for now, having fun taking in all the pretty before the OTP marriage proposals arrive. XD (I think closest to that status thus far is probably Ieyasu and Mitsunari since I've played their red paths to their tragic endings, but I need to play out the rest of each of their other paths first. ^^)

fffff oh, having a favorite ship above all others for Keiji doesn't sound unnatural at all! I mean, it strikes me as perfectly normal to have more than one pairing preference for a character, but then go and... have a ranking of sorts for them? XD

Oh man, that sounds sucky for Oichi. Hopefully I'll unlock her soon and see what all the good stuff is like. (I have seen her - and everyone else's - joke weapons though, and hers is a riot, bizarrely cute and... kind of sad, all at the same time.)

Yay! I'm glad Magoichi got your approval. Will have to see her soon. ^^

Pfft, I'll bet the whole hatred of the Little Crane is because "she's cutesy and THEREFORE NOT BADASS." If she happens to "block" any pairings in any of her paths, then that makes things even worse because fandoms in general really seem to have it in for cute girls who are somehow a "threat" to their OTPs. :P

"Misaimed Fandom audience".... ROFLMAO, that's a good term - lemme guess, "Misaimed" because they wanted testosterone-laden craziness and, although indeed receiving that part, wound up getting a ton of yaoi fodder? And "girls like easy games anyway?" XD

Haha, that's ok, really! I don't doubt that, by the time I finish the game, I'll probably be more on your side of the fence than now - at the moment I consider myself to be somewhere closer to the middle. XD

LOL, I had noticed that they were really popular in doujin circles, and I knew that freakin' Kazuma Kodaka had done doujin of them, but I was not aware that they were the top-ranking pairing for the Japan fandom! Wow. :D

Haha, I SO need to unlock their storylines soon - I still loved the hell out of them acting like idiots in Mini SenBasa. XD Plus, you know, the fact that Motochika just makes me go "UNF" in general. >D

Aw, that's too bad about Masamune. Maybe it's because the whole series is still very new to me, but I like him and his ridiculous Engrishy ways. As for how much Capcom seems to push his character onto the public, hmm... I suppose that has something to do with the rivalry with Koei and their Dynasty Warriors series?

LOL, aww, I wouldn't have minded a few spoilers, but thanks for being so considerate! ^^


And you have no SenBasa icon because a) you haven't looked for a pic that inspires you, and b) you haven't drawn for the series yet, like you so often do. ;D

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Haha, it also helps that over the internet, you're not a ctually seeing the person, and you have time to get together your thoughts, versus a more immediate reaction that IRL encounters require. =(

Oh yes, that's quite understandable. When I first learned about the series, I just saw art of the characters and that's probably why I was all :( at the anime cause I wanted to know about the characters that looked neat. And then when I saw a few eps of the anime, I looked for fanfic--but most of it in Eng fandom is DateSana, so I read a lot of that, and a few of those authors would shoe-horn in other pairings, so I was "aware" of the different main fandom pairings at the time, but didn't really have any opinion on any of it.

So I understand what you mean!

Hahaha, I think I love Mitsunari and Ieyasu second-best for my pairings. I have almost as much art of them fav'd at pixiv as I do Setouchi, and they're currently my "theme" for MSN right now orz. They're pretty tragic though. D: I'm working (slowly) on a one-shot of them in a freakin' AU situation that was supposed to be cute and fluffy like my Setouchi fic and it went in a completely serious and dark turn after a while! I'm like WTF! But that's the nature of their relationship, I think.

So you did get their endings! OMG. Um, I'm a horrible person, I have to admit I laughed at Mitsunari's at one point. Cause um. The TEARS OF BLOOD. Or rather, his mascara was running orz. But I bawled at Ieyasu's. Him pulling the hood up and just... omg. D:!!1 At that point I knew I loved those two.

Hahaha, well I didn't mean to imply it wasn't un-natural for poor Keiji to get shipped--just that I hope you'll like what the game gives you for him. I know I did and it's probably my third favorite ship. :3

I really enjoyed playing Keiji's paths. I forgot what color it was (think it's green) where he has the most absolute Crowning Moment of Awesome I've ever seen. They should end the movie like that, and then we can have a Season 3 anime that has the SB3 charas in full glory.

Oichi... I can't play her blue path. It was loads of DO NOT WANT for me. I'm missing some bodyguards from her blue path so I have to play it again, but it actually made me hate characters I really liked. :x *avoiding spoilers* I loved her red path though.

And pretty much on Tsuru-chan. They find her "annoying"--I guess similar reasons Amelia got all the hate in Slayers. I don't thinks he really stands in the way of ships--there's a few people that ship her with Motochika and she has an unrequited? canon love interest. But generally cause she's "annoying" and acts like a "cutesy girl." Her Eng VA is a bit grating at times, but totally fits, and I got used to it after a while. I love her now. JP sort of loves her--namely people who shoe-horn her into the Setouchi pair (generally non-romantic) since she's also from the Inland Sea as well. *adores the Setouchi Trio, as it's called XD*

Hahaha and yes, exactly why SenBasa was Misaimed. I don't think they expected the HUGE FEMALE FANBASE they got, but man. Look at the source. How can they NOT expect that?

Well, I say "top-ranking" simply for the sheer amount of work the fans generate. They really overwhelm every other coupling. I was talking with kuromitsu and she mentioned that even if people didn't OTP them, the Setouchi are still favorable--which is a trend I see here in the Eng fandom. Setouchi isn't popular at all here in the Eng fandom, but they're an accepted, favored sub-pairing or people just have an interest in them even if they're not OTP.

Mini SenBasa exaggerated Nari's character slightly--he's not really that goofy or "cordial," though he does have quite the acerbic wit--but the two do have a way of pushing each other's buttons that few others can. XD;

Chika makes me go unf too. Nari's my listed favorite, but Chika makes me weak in the knees when he's drawn right. His character is quite adorable too. He's one of those "brutes with a heart of gold" types, though he isn't kind to everyone (that's Ieyasu).

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That's quite true - I usually don't have too much trouble with immediate reactions with people that're close to me, or people I can sense are on a similar wavelength to mine (at least in the topic being discussed at that time - if the topic changes, I might "lose" said vibe and become a little awkward), but I definitely think I'm way more coherent in my comments here. Maybe even something close to having wit? - at times, LOL. XD


Heh, yeah, if there's one thing anime seems to do often, it's "simplifying" elaborate costume designs. I'm guessing it's largely due to wanting to stay in budget, but... yeah, kinda a letdown when it happens. So, I'm not surprised you'd be disappointed by the anime's look. :\


Ah, I shall have to peruse that fic when you're done, as well as the ChikaNari one, then. ^_^ And poor dudes, you're trying to be nice to them and Ieyasu does something stupid Mitsunari asshats it all to hell they somehow manage to screw it all up. :(


And ROFLMAO, you think that was bad? I was DYING and trying not to scare the cat with my laughter when he kept shaking Ieyasu and screaming at him to "COME BACK TO LIFE SO I CAN KILL YOU AGAIN!!!" The blood tears just cemented it. So yeah, I'm a horrible person too... let's share the handbasket to hell! XD

Ieyasu's red ending (which was the first I played), though... wow, that one was very sobering after all the silliness on the way to getting there. Poor guys. ;_;


Haha, I think I have a feeling I know which ship that is, from having peeked at your last bunch of posts? Anyway, I'll look forward to seeing it, and Keiji overall! ^_^


O_O I should probably not ask about Oichi's blue path. I take it by the "DO NOT WANT" that it's a triggery one? -_-


Sigh... I REALLY wish fandom in general would lay off already with the whole "being cutesy is bad and boring and negates any ability to be an awesome and strong character" and "being able to kill someone before they say so much as 'hi' makes him/her the coolest badass chara ever" attitudes that seem to be so prevalent even now. -_-

I'm pretty sure that for most, it's likely a trigger response we develop while still growing up and figuring ourselves and the world out, since society in general seems to still like to impose certain gender roles on its younger generations (You know, the whole "girls should be cute/domestic, boys should be macho/strong" thing.). And while I DO think it's way more than valid and justifiable to challenge this, there's this part of me that thinks... honestly? I don't like it that so many seem to go off to the other extremes and militantly so... which, in a way, basically seems to send the message that "[gender] can only be truly respected if you act like this and ONLY like this," which... well, isn't that pretty much what we're trying to break away from? I mean, whatever happened to individuality and respecting the person? It's kind of frustrating. :\


Anyway, yeah, I had a feeling that she gets mixed in with Motochika and Motonari because of this one ChikaNari doujin I got in which they were having tea (or snacks) together and Tsuruhime seemed to be fangirling dreaming up the boys' wedding. (Predictably, Motonari was in a dress. Oh, and IIRC, Mitsunari was apparently supposed to give some kinda wedding speech, but then he looks over to where Ieyasu is and for whatever reason starts screaming angrily what I guess was likely "IEYASUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!" And I think Keiji sang for the bride and groom, or something. XD) Glad to know she gets some love at least on one side of the hemisphere! ^^;


LOL so true... whoever was responsible for the character designs MUST have a general idea of what fangirls like. I mean, I've seen a few samples of the drawings - namely, the covers - online, and while they probably do fall under the general seinen manga style, they have a certain... accessibility? appeal? flair? Oh, screw it, it's just that almost all the guys are hot and that's more than enough to get a fujoshi's mind going. XD

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[cont.]


Haha, ah, I get it now. Man, I kinda wish a certain OTP of mine in Slayers fandom got that much productivity-type of love - heck, I'd even take just a quarter of the amount of productivity ChikaNari apparently gets! *whines* ;_;


Yeah, I figured that Mini SenBasa exaggerated the personalities, but damn, was it cute as hell. I couldn't decide which of the two was funnier - the jokes were played off each other so well. XD *still needs to finish the 2nd half of season 2, hopes they get to show up more... oh, and then there's playing the rest of the game to unlock them and their paths, of course!* ^^


Yes to all that. I need to get some actual (longer) conversations from him sometime so I can really see for myself this "Harlequin romance pirate-talk" vibe you got from him, LOL. XD


Yeah, I've seen the entire 1st season w/OVA + Mini SenBasa, so I had picked up on a bit of that (and LOL, the way you phrased that, Chika needs to hang out with Luffy - I bet they'd have a grand old time, both being pirates and believing in friendship and all XD). I'm still hoping there's some insight at any point in any of the paths as to what makes Nari the way he is - I'm quite curious. ^^


Oh no, don't misunderstand me - I totally see that fandom really does love Masamune and that he's a popular historical figure. It's just that I was remembering this conversation with my friend Bea (the Sengoku-period fan I mentioned before) on AIM:

[Other conversation from chat log snipped, it was also SenBasa-themed, but unrelated to the part I wanted to reference.]

(11:21:45 PM) Bea: Yeah, you can pick up all sorts of neat AI buddies. My favorite by far is Kanetsugu Naoe. He's INVIIIIIIIIINCIBLE, you know!

(11:24:43 PM) Kyokukou: Kanetsugu is the guy who's part of Kenshin's army that is always being thrown out of battle Team Rocket-style, right? XD

(11:26:17 PM) Bea: Yeah. Like everyone else, he was a real guy, but basically when Koei made Samurai Warrior, Masamune Date ended up being portrayed as kind of a laughable jerk. Capcom took offense to that, and since Kanetsugu was a big deal in Samurai Warriors, they made him a gag character in Basara.

(11:26:23 PM) Bea: *Warriors

(11:38:04 PM) Kyokukou: *reads back to the Kanetsugu part* LOL... ah, I guess fanboy wars extend even to historical figures... or at least, their fictional representations. XD


So basically... yeah, while I do agree that Masamune's character has all the strong points you mentioned that make him already attractive to fandom (myself included), I also can't help but think that Capcom's company rivalry with Koei might have a little hand in it too.


And aw, poor Mitsunari. Now I'm picturing that fight with him going "Trying to outgay ME when it's MY turn to be one of the stars take what should belong to my Lord Hideyoshi, are you?!" while beating Masamune. XD


[cont.]

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[cont. the 2nd]


Yeah, I'm not too fond of using other people's fanart either. My icons either I made from official art/screens, made for me by friends/acquaintances also with official sources (the Gaav "milkshake" ones were made by an LJ acquaintance, for example, when that particular icon meme was prevalent and I rambled idly about how amusing it'd be to break a few minds when posting around in comms have one XD), or were made by other people for me (such as the stick-figure Gaav x Xelloss porn, which was made by a friend of mine and I've wound up using as my general "pr0n discussion!" icon XD).

The one that comes closest to being a fanart is the Tosh pic, which I made from a wallpaper off the official AtL Japanese site (And it didn't seem like they posted submitted fanart, so I GUESS it was drawn by one of the other developers of the series? Don't know anything else about its origin, so maybe it was bad form? ^^;;), and the angry!doodle pic I use for ranting, which IS actually part of a gift fanart an old acquaintance I lost touch with made - as you might've seen, another of my primary avatar pics is of Suikoden's Viki, and the complete doodle was of "me" (I used to have long brown hair vaguely similar to hers - well, except for the bangs. That and her spacey/kind of silly personality made me pick her as an avatar. XD) angrily whacking Xelloss over the head with a paper fan. XD Unfortunately, I think I don't have the full pic anymore due to having switched computers twice, and I've lost touch with the person. :(


And LMAO, that's ok, it's good to have a Favorite Thing! I mean, you've put up with me and my Slayers fangirling for years now, it'd be unfair of me not to listen to you! XD (Besides, I'm liking the series anyway, so I encourage people to gush around me! ^^)

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Have you seen the first season OAV (ep13)? The Setouchi episode with Nari, Chika, and Keiji. The episode does sum up the Setouchi's characters pretty well--and the main beef they have with each other. (Nari: I AM THE LIVING DEFINTION OF THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS; Chika: I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF NAKAMA!)

Well, that's just my opinion about Masamune. In SB3, since it's in English, they removed the "Engrish" gimmick, so he's... kind of bland without it, fffff. So he came across as a one-trick pony for me, and while they're cool at first, I find they're hard to work with otherwise. (It doesn't help that he's had character growth so he's not as wild and crazy in SB3 due to events in SB2.)

I don't really think Capcom pushes him so much as fandom does really love him. I mean, he's a handsome guy, voiced (in JP) by a popular seiyuu (Nakai), he's the Japanese epitome of "cool," Masamune Date is a popular historical figure anyway, and so on.

Mitsunari apparently got huge backlash from fans when SB3 was first being revealed cause Capcom chose to first reveal Mitsun with the CG sequence of him beating up Masamune, fandom darling, at Odawara. orz

Well, I don't like using fanart I can't ask for in my icons and yeah. I haven't drawn yet. The costumes are pretty intimidating. XD; I bought the artbooks to help with that, but currently I'm being lazy. XD I haven't touched that Kizuna RaguHaza pic in days. D:

and orz sorry
obviously this is my new favorite thing since i can talk about it so much

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Slayers reply!

Unfortunately pretty short as I'm generally out of it when it comes to this series.

Poor Valgarv. I've never seen a character get so much flak other than Amelia when it comes to Slayers fffff. Honestly, "just very violently angry, bitter, cynical" is a good way to put him and normally this would draw the fans like crazy. I have no idea why he got the opposite effect.

That's okay, Val! I still love you best!

Hm, I wonder if I can watch Revolution just for the Zel parts and skip past everything else ffff and see if I like it better. But I don't want to buy the DVDs because I do have the first few eps on fansub and it really was too dated... =/ (I don't do well with the nostalgic factor ffff).

Oddly enough, I did try to watch NEXT--the reason I never watched all of it was cause I got bored! ffff I did watch the ending, with Gourry and Lina and Giga Slave and all, but a lot of it was confusing because I hadn't seen the rest ffff. I watched NEXT after TRY though, and I also think it was around the time that my interest in Slayers was waning.

Ah hahaha, Slayers fandom. I met a lot of cool people there and it was partially my gateway to yaoi, but man. THe fandom had some problems. SO MANY SHIPPING WARS omgggggggggggggggggggg... not as bad as Digimon... ffffff...

AS FANS WE REALLY DO GET PRETTY INVESTED IN THE LOVE LIVES OF CHARAS THAT DON'T EVEN EXIST, HUH? XD

I think it's pretty admirable than you can maintain loyalty and good will to a series for so long.

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Haha, that's ok, I'm not entirely current with the series myself, outside of the anime version! XD

I... was actually quite surprised when you told me in that past reply that Val getting flak was actually the norm in the past - I had been under the impression that this was a new thing, because everyone I ever had communication/discussion of Slayers with (you included) adored his character! :O (Of course, all of them either loved or at least respected Gaav's character too, and those two seem to show up as a bundle for the most part...)

Yes Val, we ♥ j00! :D

Amelia... I actually haven't looked into where she stands in current fandom - largely because I think I'm still shell-shocked by all the SHEER VITRIOL fans would spew about her in the past. I mean, WOW. O_O (And this is coming from someone who wasn't even much of a fan of hers at the start of the series - she grew on me a bit slower than a lot of the others, but now she's one of my favorite girls, if not the top favorite overall.)


Well, the majority of the Zel parts I speak of are mostly closer to the end of Evolution-R, the "2nd season." (Why they split the whole thing into two 13-episode seasons with different names when the others - while having very distinct "halves" in the plots each - were 26 is a little bit of a "Uh, o-k...?" moment for me, though I figure that the "Evolution" part of the name for the second half is kind of appropiate for some of the characters? I dunno. :\)

Hmm, you know, I do have an extra set of Revolution/Evolution-R (on DVD) because I later got the Blu-ray releases (fffff if there's one series I'm stupid enough to fork over money repeatedly for every time it "upgrades"... XD) and I wasn't sure what exactly to do with them other than maybe keep them as "loaners." I'm thinking... I could scan through the set for the Zel scenes, and then could mail you the DVDs with a list of where to look for those parts. Saves you time and money, right? XD

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Well, do you remember Eugune Chung? A really popular Slayers artist, did a lot of Zel/Lina? She actually didn't like Val very much at first. =( I managed to convince her otherwise, but... Val wasn't highly regarded because of the ANGSTTTTTT...

I'm the same as you--I wasn't too fond of Amelia at first, namely cause I found her Eng voice actor extremely grating--but she grew on me once I got past the whole schtick. I like her now and most people I associate with that knew Slayers seem to have gone through a similar transition. I don't know about current fandom, but it did seem like the old!fen trend was the same too.

Hahaha, I appreciate the offer of the DVDs, but I'm still unsure of how I feel about revisiting Slayers, so I don't know if it's worth you going through the trouble when I may never even watch it. Typically talking about stuff for any fandom I used to be a part of makes me go SQUEE I WANT TO VISIT IT AGAIN but Slayers isn't ejecting that response. I'm not sure if my last visit to it left me with a sour feeling or maybe it was a fandom that I truly have changed tastes from. (For instance, the "time of the month" thing for female sorceresses actually pisses me off now, despite me finding it absolutely hilarious back when I was younger.)

it reveals Gaav had become part-human and was considered a traitor to the Mazoku

I DID NOT KNOW THIS. I mean, I knew he was a traitor but not what had happened. D:!

The lack of info about Gaav is pretty disappointing, but I suspect a lot of it may deal with that he doesn't seem to be uh, one of the more pretty popular characters. I was about to ask if the novels may have revealed something, but looks like you're on it. XD

I still have to hold back the urge to go all nostalgia-blind and scream "FF6 UBER ALLES, BITCHES." XD

Hahahaha, I'm the same way! Though I'll interpose "FF4" in there occasionally too. I'm getting a kick out of Dissidia because the "classics" are getting screen time, but all updated. Though for me, it's not really nostalgia-blinded when it comes to FF6; it's pretty timeless, though I certainly wouldn't mind Square updating it to be more like a modern RPG.

OMG I REMEMBER ALRUHI'S FICS fffffff sort of... well okay, I remember her name, I think she wrote Gensui2 fiction that I was totally digging. *rolls around*

My yaoi start was actually purely accidental, but it was Slayers and a few fen within it that liked BL (not just Slayers) that got me into it. I don't talk with any of them any more, though one of them (Nangke) I do still follow on LJ even if we don't converse. I remember when I first got into Slayers, it had no yaoi in the Eng fandom, and then the Royal Fool wrote some gag fic that had some BL thrown in, and then slowly the BL shippers came crawling out of the woodworks. ffffff

I think the Slayers problem was cause the BL came out after the fandom had started already planting roots; I think it shocked a lot of people (remember when we had to put up warning pages everywhere with secret links and label even the most tame BL as "18+"?) and rather than perceiving it as a threat to their ship, it was a threat to their sensibilities.

Fandom sure has changed, hasn't it? You can't even go to a con without some kind of BL nudge-nudge-wink-wink popping up in the most unexpected places.

(I still recall this pair of boy cosplayers cosplaying Edgar and Sabin. I was excited to see FF6 cosplay so I asked for a pic; after I got it, the Edgar grinned and asked me if I wanted a yaoi photo too. I was pretty taken aback, it's not something I expect anyone to ask out of the blue, especially with a team cosplaying two brothers and me in regular clothes and accompanied by a guy [Jon]. I said yes, of course, and got a cute image of them ballroom dancing and then the Edgar dipping the Sabin.)

Hm, you're right about being on the sidelines does help to stay in one fandom. Some fandoms I was really active in sometimes give me a bad taste because of poor experiences/drama I had within in them. Or just experiencing ship/chara wars, etc.

People complain about me switching fandoms too much. ^^;

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Hee, of course I remember Eugene Chung! She seemed pretty much everywhere back in those days of fandom - I remember loving a good deal of her fanart, and adored the hell out of the one pic she did of Gaav and Val looking at the sunset(?) together. ♥ Also, that one pic she did of child!Zelgadis hugging Rezo - that one was so sweet it could give toothaches. ♥

But man, fandoms where they complain a character is "too silly," and fandoms where they complain a chara is "too angsty"... people are never satisfied either way, are they? *snerk* XD


I think I had read warnings (or rather, arguments) about the Slayers dub due to the choices for some of the characters, and decided to stick to the sub when I purchased the VHS tapes (Ah, remember those days? You and I are ancient now... XD). Later on I heard some dub clips on this one site that offered them (as well as clips from the subs), and after hearing Amelia's first VA... yeah, that was REALLY bad (though was mercifully only actually in two eps or so before the switch, I believe), and unfortunately for the second VA (Veronica Taylor, I think?), she had to start out with mimicking that crappy VA and gradually tone her down to something more palatable. So in a way, I felt for her. :\

The VA choice that actually really annoyed me, though, was surprisingly one that a good number of the dub fans (used to?) praise, and that was Lisa Ortiz as Lina - dub fans used to complain that Megumi Hayashibara is too high-pitched and shrieky, but my complaint with Lina's dub voice (at least in the first 3 seasons, I haven't tried checking out Revolution/Evolution-R's dub to see how much the VAs have matured now that they have more experience) is that she sounded... well, too acidic even in parts where she should be cute. :\

Add to that the fact that I wasn't too impressed with either of Zel's actors (The first one kind of sounded in the clips like he was going to fall asleep, and Crispin Freeman - well, he's not bad, but something didn't "click" with me.), and that David Moo - despite apparently being able to act - picked too snotty-sounding a tone to use with Xelloss for my personal taste (I was told long ago by another OL pal that Moo's normal voice in the DVD extras would've actually fit the character a lot better overall. I should probably check those out sometime and see for myself.), and you got me as someone who - while not a dub-hater at all and can accept claims that it could be considered overall one of the "better" dub efforts of the time - was pretty indifferent/avoidant of it.

Eric Stuart as Gourry was a good call, though. Even if most of the time I just heard Brock in his inflections. XD

I should probably fire up the dubs someday to make a better judgement than all this, which was made from sound clips years and YEARS ago rather than watching full episodes. Especially now since in Revolution/Evolution-R there's another guy playing Xelloss and a bunch of new charas, and I've never gotten a good handle on Val's English voice acting because there were not that many clips of him to peruse at that site, plus I haven't actually ever tried hearing how Gaav was handled (Blame Nakata's Voice of Pure Hotness. >D~~~~) - and I call myself a fangirl! ;P


Anyway, about Amelia, I have no idea what Western Fandom's General Opinion of her is nowadays, but what you've said gives me hope that bit changed for the better? I mean, them flamewars over her were NASTY and I hope they don't get revisited. -_- (I guess that the fandom in general "grew up" a bit and that's why all those old!fen followed suit in their way of thinking? Or maybe it's just that the fandom's so old in Intertube Years that most of the people that are really immature and never learn enjoy warring over characters and ships moved to "greener pastures?" ^^;;)

I've always been under the impression (thanks to doujin-collecting and a bit of fanart-site perusal in the old days) that she was pretty well-received in Japan fandom, though. Then again, the greater majority of J-fandom seemed to stick to the "trad" for this series, so I guess it wasn't surprsing.


[cont.]

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Haha, that's ok, it wouldn't have been any trouble at all for me, but I understand perfectly how you feel. ^^ And I can understand on that old "time of the month" gag being irritating - personally, I tend to have days where I still find it halfway amusing (though nowdays it's more of a "OH, Kanzaka-san" for the most part) and days where I'm "Seriously? >(" about it... I keep thinking there should be some kind of "payoff" for the women in their world for having to deal with the (what should've been a non-)issue, such as sorceresses generally having a greater magic capacity than male magic users or something. It never having been an issue at all in the first place would've been ideal, but anyway... :\

Anyhow, if you want me to give you the general details on the parts that made me squee about Zel in Revolution/Evolution-R that I can remember offhand, I'm more than willing to give a (hopefully quick so I don't bore you to tears?) recap. ^_^;


[cont., again]

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LMAO, you DIDN'T know that bit about Gaav? :O Oh man... well, lemme give you the general gist of things according to the Slayers Next anime. Maybe get a sandwich before you get to reading this part, though. *snerk*

Ahem...

See, when Lina FINALLY reaches the original Claire Bible (which was somewhere in a warped space of the Astral Plane in the Kataart Mountains, where the Gold Dragons that serve the Aqualord live), she asks it a whole bunch of questions, which lead to several revelations:

a) The Claire Bible is revealed to actually be the remaining consciousness and memories of the Aqualord (aka Water Dragon King, who also projects itself as a little old lady who calls herself "Auntie Aqua" - whether this was a form the Aqualord took back when living, or how she[?] chose to project as after becoming the Claire Bible, is unexplained by the anime) after the 1st shard of Ruby-Eye Shabranigdo awakened about 1,000 years before Lina's time and defeated her(? ...I'm not sure what the "proper" gender is in regards to a shinzoku like Aqualord, especially since IIRC, the Claire Bible transmitted its knowledge to Lina using a "male" voice in the sub, despite having projected as Auntie Aqua before that) at the end of the Kouma War (aka War of the Demons' Fall). It contains what is possibly a limitless amount of knowledge about the world and its secrets - in fact, during Lina's interrogation of it, she learns more about the Lord of Nightmares, and thusly, how to perfect the incantations of both the Ragna Blade and the Giga Slave.

b) Of course, as you might recall from the original series, the history/lore of the world says that, about 5,000 years before Lina's time, Shabranigdo was broken into 7 parts by Ceipheed and sealed in humans, and then creating 4 alter egos of itself with a fraction of Ceipheed's original power before dying/"sinking into the Sea of Chaos" (whatever that exactly entails - and yeah, it sounds a little confusing). And yes, since 1/4th > 1/7th, any of the four Dragon Lords should be able to take on a single Shabranigdo shard with ease, but...

[cont.]

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c) ...the 1st of Shabranigdo's shards came up with a strategy to make up for the uneven match. While this isn't entirely explained by Next on its own (Some of it you figure out from what Lina explains to Gourry in the beginning of Try, and... I forgot where I got the rest of the exact details... I think maybe QP/Diana's Slayers novel summaries? Anyway, most of this part I'll REALLY need to confirm for myself when I get to reading the 7th and 8th novels - I'm almost done with 3 right now, so hopefully soon!), but basically, he had four of his five servants - Hellmaster Phibrizo, Dynast Grausherra (or however you spell his frickin' name, I've seen too many variants over the years to even be sure what the most accurate romanization is anymore :P), Deep Sea Dolphin, and Greater Beast (or alternately, Beastmaster) Zelas Metallium - take a cardinal point and use their energies to create a God-Sealing Barrier, which would weaken Aqualord's power and augment that of Mazoku, and keep any of the other 3 Dragon Lords from interfering. (This is the same barrier that Lina mentions had been destroyed at the beginning of Try once Phibrizo was killed, which led to people being able to explore the "outside world," which - because of so much magical energy being concentrated in only one area of the world - had very little active sorcery/sorcerers left, as they apparently couldn't cast much that was beyond simple lighting spells. BTW, due to that same barrier, Lina's part of the world became extremely advanced in the magical arts.)

The last of the five servants - Maryuuou Gaav - then went with Lei Magnus-Shabranigdo (Lei Magnus was the name of the human who was host to that particular shard of Ruby-Eye - he was also one of the other Great Sages/Wise Men of the Age, like Rezo in Lina's time. He was shown once very early in the first season, when Lina was explaining who Shabranigdo was and some of the history of Slayers world to Gourry.) to assist Ruby-Eye in waging battle with Aqualord.

How, you're wondering, since Gaav (and any of the other 4 lords) are weaker than Shabranigdo or Aqualord? Simple - Gaav would serve as a conduit+amplifier for Shabranigdo's powers (kind of like how Lina used Gourry's Sword of Light in the first series to amplify the effects of the Giga Slave, not to mention how Zel and Amelia did this too with their own spells when they all fought Copy Rezo/Zanaffar in the 2nd half of the same season), which along with the barrier created by the other 4 isolating and weakening Aqualord, should be enough to compensate for the power difference. (Also need to confirm this personally, but I remember commentary by a number of people online who claimed familiarity with the novels [including QP/Diana's summaries, I think?] that the reason Gaav was picked for this particular task was because of his dragon-like affinities in his Mazoku form, possibly also helping in channeling Shabranigdo's attack more effectively.)

d) The strategy actually worked - Lei-Shabranigdo managed to kill Aqualord, though failed in destroying her consciousness - though not without severe consequences/casualties: First off, before dying, Aqualord managed to seal Lei-Shabranigdo in a great block of magical ice, and while the guy's not DEAD per se, he's been incapacitated for the time being. He remains to Lina's day trapped in the ice somewhere deep in the northern mountains, which led to him being called the "Demon King of the North" over time.

Secondly, there was Gaav - again, before dying and turning into the Claire Bible, Aqualord pulled a second trick, and that was to somehow seal/curse Gaav into a human, much like how Ceipheed had done with Shabranigdo so long ago (except not broken in shards).

e) Now here's where the interesting part comes in: For what seem like apparently completely unknown reasons to the viewer (in the anime at least), this partially-humanized Gaav decided to rebel against the other 4 lords, and was on the run/went into hiding. At some point during all that is when he encounters Val and takes him under his wing.

[cont.]

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That's not to say that Gaav spent all his time screwing around with Val, as much as I'd love that, LOL >D in hiding - at some point, he started working on trying to spread his influence of power in the human world. As you might know from some of your friends, during the plot of Next he tried to take control of Seyruun by having Kanzel and Mazenda manipulate Alfred, Amelia's cousin, to attempt to kill Prince Phil.

Of course, these plans all went to hell because he somehow got word that, after Lina had killed Rezo-Shabranigdo, and her feats versus the copy at Sairaag, Phibrizo had "decided she would be useful for his plans" (which was at first a little bit of a ruse Phibrizo used to lure Gaav out in the open, though after personally witnessing her battle with Gaav, and having stayed informed of her previous accomplishments, he realized that Lina would be even more extremely useful for his scheme than he originally believed), and Gaav decided to intervene by attempting several times to force Lina to either join his ranks, or be killed - first by Kanzel and Mazenda, then a few other random Mazoku before finally showing his face personally at the Temple of Sand, and then again at Dragon's Peak in the Kataart Mountains.

If you're wondering why Gaav'd try to get in Phibrizo's way to begin with, that part's pretty explicitly stated in the anime: The man himself states that he's pretty much fighting for his life, and that whatever Phibrizo's ultimate plot is, it's a great menace (which makes me wonder if he had at least a hunch on what Phibrizo ultimately planned), so as long as Lina continued to "play along" by going about things her own way, she was also a threat that needed to be disposed of. He even comments to one of them (Amelia, I think?) when they argue that they're fighting for their lives that "we're really not all that different" (paraphrasing here), a comment which he somewhat echoed in Val's flashback when he persuaded Val to join him.

And you probably pretty much know the results of that last encounter - Lina uses Ragna Blade on him, he manages to survive despite being heavily wounded, and right when the gang's all "OHSHI- what're we gonna do NOW?!" because they've pretty much exhausted their powers, Phibrizo comes in and finishes off Gaav. (And after introducing himself and explaining he's been the one pulling the strings, kidnaps Gourry.)

Interesting to note is that, in the anime, Phibrizo comments to Gaav something like "I could try to rip the human part out of you, but the two seem too merged for me to be able to do it" right before he kills him, which if true, should leave things open for plenty of different theories to explore.


[cont.]

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A... ahem, sorry, I got really wrapped up in telling this part. ^^;; In summary (and hopefully without any of the parts that weren't in the anime/were read off anything that wasn't the original sources), it was like:

a) Claire Bible is actually Aqualord's consciousness/knowledge (and how it knew what had happened to Gaav after sealing him is beyond me - maybe the Claire Bible keeps learning with time, since it's not only a record of memories, but a consciouness?).

b) Lei-Shabranigdo defeated Aqualord with strategy by using his servants to both weaken Aqualord and strengthen/augmenting his power at the same time.

c) Aqualord is defeated, but she managed to strike back decisively, incapacitating Lei-Shabranigdo and sealing Gaav.

d) For unknown reasons (there have been theories from "he went crazy from the seal" to "he was offended by how he was treated after the war" to "he started to lust for greater power than the might he already possessed, and the other 4 lords thought it'd upset their power balance," among others, but there's no conclusive evidence that supports any of them - at least in the anime, it's extremely open ended how it could go), partially human!Gaav rebels against the other Mazoku, and goes into hiding. At some point he meets Val and makes him his servant, and also starts to try to spread his influence via the human world.

e) Gaav's driving motive for all this? Anime-wise, according to his own words, it's pretty simple: Survival.


...and that was almost as long! ^^;; Well, I hope the short version is still helpful in case you don't want to read the longer version? ^^;;

I still need to see what the novels may have to add to all this. I'm almost done with vol. 3, and the most relevant novels should be the last two (well, the last two that were ever published in NA - the main Slayers series is actually 15 novels long, but Tokyopop nixed the project after 8, which covered the battle with Phibrizo), which are 7 (Gaav's Challenge) and 8 (</i>King of the City of Ghosts</i>). Maybe a bit of the ones before it too, as Gaav's followers (Kanzel and Mazenda, as well as Raltark and Rashart, his general and priest [forget which one's which, since tha names almost make them sound like twins or something, LOL XD] from that continuity) start showing up in the earlier books (the battle for Seyruun is novel 4, for instance, where Kanzel shows up - BTW, he and Mazenda do not work as a team in the novels) before he makes his actual entrance.


[cont.]

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And LOL, poor Gaav - I bet if he presented his physical form as a less beefy man with softer facial features, he'd easily score more fans. No matter, I still think he's hot - those who don't like/are indifferent to him don't know what they're missing. ^^

(Incidentally, I couldn't contain myself, snuck a peek just now at the 7th novel and flipped around to find Gaav's physical description in it, and Lina thinks he's "ruggedly handsome" (though she also says he has a "wicked smile"). Yay, Lina has good taste! XD Also, she describes him as 20-ish in age, which made me go "Huh?" :O Rui Araizumi's design for him always made me think of the guy as at least in his 30s. O_O Also, his coat is white and his longsword has a red blade, apparently.)


[cont.]

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Anyway! Moving on...

Well, FF6's still one of my favorite FFs (also one of my favorite RPGs overall), if not the top fave, but since so many newer folk like to screech that us "old-school" fans (whatever the hell that means, as the older we get and more console generations pass, the more people can be lumped into that category) are blinded by our nostalgia, I just go pffff and let them think whatever they wish. But yes, FF6's definitely epic storywise, and it handled what was a fairly large main cast in a surprisingly decent manner for the most part, for its time. :D

And I'd LOVE to see an updated version, if only to introduce the newer crop of gamers to its wonder. ^_^


Hee! Yeah, I still sometimes peek at her LJ (I think she also has a Dreamwidth account, and she used to have an account here on JF, though I dunno if she uses it now.), though we don't talk often anymore. Last I checked, she'd been playing Tales of the Abyss and loving it - think she's even plotting possible fic or something.


And LOL, accidental yaoi... kinda what happened to me! IIRC, it was sorta like this: *gets FF7 + internet access at home about the same time* -> *plays FF7, loves it, thinks she should look up extra info on it/wanted to see if there were full pics of the concept art* -> *looks up game info sites* -> *discovers fandom, cheers* -> *discovers fanfic/art, cheers more* -> *while seeking more fic/art, winds up finding yaoi... hmm, this really caters to my interests, can haz newsletter plz?! :D* -> PROFIT? XD

But that's rather cute how the Slayers yaoi fans felt emboldened by the one gag fic. ^^ I'm picturing the first brave person raising their hand timidly and saying "...yeah, I ship it." XD


That's probably it. Also, I don't know how much actual influence it had on NA fans, but it might not have helped that the J-fandom for Slayers looks to me almost painfully trad in its majority. At least, that's the impression I got from searching for Slayers doujinshi, which I was (and still am, when I can actually find something that interests me anymore) an avid collector of. (Funny story: I'm... kinda the person responsible for Toshi-san having made a Slayers doujinshi section on his old site to begin with, LMAO. ^_^;; He even still remembered I collected for the series when I added him to my Twitter list about a year back, despite not having ordered all that much from him for quite a few years. Oy... ^^;;)

And yes, I remember all those stupid warnings and trick links to make sure you read and whatnot. And LOL, offended sensibilities - for some reason I'm making a mental picture of Lewis Black's stand-up mocking the homophobe folks. XD ("And another American family has been destroyed!" or something like that. XD) Believe me, I do NOT wish to relive those times again - I'm rather liking that, despite all its continued stupidity and wank (especially in some areas more than others), fandom and the internet in general have gotten more... queer-friendly, I guess you could call it? Or maybe, the queer and queer-friendly folk have gotten more vocal (And in a very mature fashion - GOD I loved that smackdown from last week by the Dragon Age II guy from Bioware! :D) about not putting up with the bullshit of other people trying to tell them how there's only one way to play in the sandbox. :P Times have indeed changed for fandom, and in a lot of ways for the better.


Aww, that's actually a cute story about the Edgar and Sabin! XD I'd probably have been surprised too - I've started going to local cons over the past 2 years, and I don't ask much from cosplayers other than a picture in whatever pose they feel like doing/is best for their character. Sometimes I talk to them for a bit if it's for a series I'm fairly fangirly of. (Like the Ace Attorney cosplayers I saw in a few of my first events. They seemed pretty cool. :D)


Yeah, sometimes I even wound up limiting myself to reading fic/looking at art in some fandoms, because the forums were pretty bad and all that vitriol can make a halfway sane person run for the hills. I mean, guys, is it really all that hard for you to play and let play? :\


...if people complain about that to you, I'll bet they (secretly?) complain about how I Only Talk About One Thing. *rolls* XD

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Haha, that's ok. And... well, one of the flaws I accept Next might have despite having executed a lot of things better (hence why I only said "technically" superior) is that they do condense a lot of info on the mythology and what had happened 1,000 years before in the Kouma War in only a few eps during the second half (When the original Claire Bible is finally found and Lina questions it as to Gaav's motives, and it reveals Gaav had become part-human and was considered a traitor to the Mazoku.) when this bit should've probably been more spread out, not to mention perhaps shown more than just told. I blame this partly due to a certain "lack of info" - AFAIK, not one of the places online I've tried hitting up for supplemental info in the past has been able to give a concrete, fully sourced/backed-up reason as to WHY Gaav chose to become traitor (the anime certainly doesn't explain it - it just seemed to... happen). Hell, it makes you wonder if he even became a traitor by his own choice at all . It's all theorizing from what I've seen, and I can do that fine on my own or with friends. (But then again, like I've said, I've barely hit any of the info sites in several years, and it seems practically none of them update anymore anyway, and the few that might have something new I haven't verified their reliability yet, so... :\)

I also have a small suspicion the novels don't do much to answer that question either, but I'll have to get to those. (Already started rereading #1, btw.)


And LOL, nostalgia. Actually, nostalgia can be a hit or miss with me. (see: Every other geek worshipping the original Star Wars trilogy, me barely remembering any of it at all other than having had fun watching it, but at the same time not really feeling a desperate urge to watch it again soon.) I'll admit, though, that despite adoring the everloving hell out of FFX and still having crushes on Cid and Vincent in FF7, and probably getting some fun out of whatever else Squeenix throws out at us with that brand, I still have to hold back the urge to go all nostalgia-blind and scream "FF6 UBER ALLES, BITCHES." XD

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LOL, FF7 and RPG yaoi was my initial gateway to that genre, Slayers just deeply rooted it to my being and made sure to turn into a hopeless fujoshi. >D I never actually participated in any of the series' forums or MLs or whatnot - maybe it was precisely because I was afraid of being torn to shreds by all the warring shippers, but I was happy just lurking and eating up all the fic and art I could find. (Yours included - before we started ever talking on your Diaryland journal when you were deep into Kingdom Hearts, I had found you and Jon's Morethanart site years before, and I was already admiring all your art, Slayers and FF7 and pretty much everything. I'd stalk visit on and off since then. ^^) All the Slayers fan-friends I've made have been in entirely different places - for example, redconverse/Red Slacker is one of my oldest OL friends that I still keep regularly in touch with, and I met the guy on Alruhi/Jurhael/whatever handle she's using now for her stories' ML, which was mostly about gaming, but sometimes deviated into anime and manga and general fangirling, and Next had just come out and I was still new to everything and squeeing over Xelloss and Zelgadis, and he joined in because he was also infatuated with them. We practically took over the mailing list with talk for a while and hooked even a few more people into it chatted, exchanged AIM SNs, discussed the series, RPed (terribly, at least I did, LOL XD), chatted some more, and well, over 10 years and he's like the little brother I never had (and have yet to meet personally). XD

But anyway... yeah, those shippers were... well, YIKES. O_O I mean, the sandbox really IS big enough, guys, we can ALL play in it however we want to. Some of us like to do so in more than one way, even! :O


Ahahah! *blush* Well, I think some folks might possibly think it's a little bit embarassing to be this obsessive over a series for so long, but hey, if older fandoms than Slayers can remain alive and well, I guess I'm not that bad? ^^;; But seriously, I think the fact that I stayed lurking in the sidelines for the most part during the fandom's worst moments paid off for me - easier to ignore all that bile.

And I likewise think it's very admirable to see someone being able to touch down and be wonderfully creative in so many fandoms. I don't know if I could ever pull that off. ^_^

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