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| Thursday, July 24th, 2008 | | 11:34 pm |
http://jacquez.livejournal.com/616333.html?style=mineThe parts about Tritorella/Logosphile/etc seem to illustrate that it's not.... really a good idea to go for the full on SHUN THE SKINSACK EVERYONE effect if you don't have your facts straight. It is kind of well, rather libelous to say that someone made death threats when they didn't. Also, uh, if you're rather vague over whether someone did something egregious and admit that you weren't really paying attention at the time, why even bother bringing it up? [It's kind of unclear whether Tritorella/Logosphile was even a puppeteer, given that other people don't seem to believe she is, even those who aren't her friends. If so, the charges against her are "flamemonger," and "told OP not to contact her under pain of charges of harassment." So it's possible that Tritorella is as evil as she is said to be, but there sure doesn't seem to be any concrete evidence. ) | | Sunday, July 20th, 2008 | | 4:40 pm |
http://ithiliana.livejournal.com/919805.html?style=mine"Apparently in the wake of Rebecca Tushnet's (reportedly) awesome interview on NPR, there are fans concerned that someone is outing fandom which, in their minds, apparently has been a big secret until the Awful Girlz of OTW ™ got together and decided to Speak For All Fandom! And btw those awful girlz should identify who they are in both online and offline forums because well they just should because they are speaking for all fandom." I realize that some people don't agree with the issues some people have with Rebecca Tushnet's interview, but is it too much to ask that they not all be lumped together? It's pretty OBVIOUS that Ethrosdemon does not agree with Michela's opinions regarding fandom outing of individual fans, so to conflate the two is just dirty pool. :P (Michela isn't even discussing Ethrosdemon's arguments anyway.) Ethrosdemon also knows and respects some of the people involved in OTW, so it is completely unfair to characterize her as someone who believes the members of OTW are bad people. I'm not saying this because I agree with every single one of Ethrosdemon's opinions, but I think she deserves better than this. This is WHY some people are saying that OTW doesn't have respect for those who criticize it! (Is it fair to judge the OTW by what Ithiliana said? I think it is. She's a member who is speaking out in support of it. If higher ups in the OTW repudiate what she has said, I'll change my mind. In general, I think it is fair to judge an organization by what members do in relation to it. If the organization didn't agree, they would talk to the members. The people who criticize OTW, however, are doing so as individuals, not as members of an organization. ) People have explained the difference between, to them, an organization and individual fans speaking. Now, people may not agree with that difference, but it's bad faith not to link to what people have said and instead simply lump together all parties. The main argument that Ethrosdemon and those who agree with her is actually NOT that copyright holders don't know about fandom, it's that they don't agree with an organization that publicly asserts that fanworks are not copyright infringement, and also, that they do not like that OTW has become the public face of fandom, especially when OTW is taking up positions that they do not support, and see the advocacy of which as potentially harmful to fandom. Both of these positions, I think, deserve more than just simple mockery, even if you are foolish and disagree with them, and the people who have put them forth do not deserve to be characterized as holding positions they have never publicly supported. Furthermore, supporting outing is NOT the same as having reservations with people not revealing their identities when taking up public spokesperson roles. | | Saturday, July 19th, 2008 | | 10:55 am |
Is it sockpuppetry?
Is it sockpuppetry if you have two separate identities in a social group and the linkage is secret? Assume that no trolling is being done, and neither identity is in itself a lie or a serious misrepresentation. Having two identities on the internet isn't a problem, but I think it starts being a problem when the two identities hang around the same spaces and the same groups.
The situation gets further complicated when we are dealing with privacy issues, when one identity is a person's legal identity, and the other identity is the "fan identity." I don't support outing fans who are not doing anything destructive or trollish; however, I think people do need to realize that there are potential social problems in this approach.
Essentially, stable identity is important in a community because of reputation. People IMHO generally feel that they should have the opportunity to judge people by their prior public acts in the community. That is why it is considered a negative thing to create an LJ account to get friended by people without explaining who you are in the group and revealing your other LJ account. People won't be offended, perhaps, by another main LJ account which doesn't interact in the general social group where the sock/secondary account is getting friends. I think the degree to which people are bothered by this depends on the degree to which the two accounts interact in the community. If one account never makes comments, never makes posts, people will feel less offended than if both accounts participate with gusto, because that increases the possibility that people will form ties with the sock. I wonder how one would deal with someone wanting to befriend the sock when the potential friend doesn't like the RL identity.
It strikes me as bad form, also, to comment on someone's post using two accounts without informing them of this fact. Not saying this has been done recently, but it's a situation which could potentially occur as a result of people participating in fandom simultaneously under their RL and fan identities. | | Friday, July 18th, 2008 | | 10:19 pm |
http://ethrosdemon.livejournal.com/423655.html?style=mineIt's good to see someone talking about concerns about the OTW who is within Western media fandom, and focusing on core issues, rather than the side ones. As much as some OTW supporters say that the archive is the center, that doesn't really matter because no one objects to the idea of an archive, it's the legal issues people question. I personally don't experience her issue with the OTW that people will see it as representing her, because I'm an anime fan and fair use doesn't exist in Japan, and also I don't write fanfiction, and go whole months without reading any. But I can understand that issue, that people will believe that all fanfic fans share the ideology of the OTW. I don't know if anything can be done about it. This will hold especially true if the OTW ever does anything controversial to the general public or creative groups outside fandom. She also goes into the legal aspects. Personally, I think her viewpoint is more... realistic? than that of a lot of people who feel that fanfic is already fair use in the US. (A legal article recently concluded that it is probably not "fair dealing" in Canada, and someone on my flist, a legal student, is in the process of writing an article about how it is probably not "fair dealing" in Australia either. IANAL but I suspect the same applies to Britain. No one has even mentioned France and Germany, or the rest of the EU. ) | | Wednesday, July 9th, 2008 | | 5:30 am |
http://www.journalfen.net/users/white_serpent/38852.html?style=mineLOL. I hate it when people post to fandom comms asking for help either on their homework, or for help with their research. I don't believe it's inappropriate, and feel that it's a kind of spam. It sets a bad precedent. I think it can be okay to for people to ask questions, but just as any old sort of fan, not as a 'I'm looking for viewpoints on blah blah blah, give them to me.' Just start a discussion, then ask people afterwards if they give permission to be cited, if that is an issue. | | Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008 | | 7:20 pm |
Huh, all of a sudden, I don't seem to be receiving JF comment notifications. | | 3:39 am |
I'm kind of fascinated by the ongoing Boingboing contretemps, even though I don't read Boingboing. Like I was saying LJ, I remember everyone saying during the various LJ crises 'zomg, what morons, why don't they just say something already?' but then it seems like web 2.0 veterans don't do any better w/ quick turnaround times?
No matter what Violet Blue has done to offend the BoingBoing folk so much though, I think maybe one thing is that a public action demands a public explanation, PR wise. Otherwise you get this kind of reputation freefall, especially when you have a reputation for demanding transparency/anti-censorship. That's why LJ has such a bad reputation, even when they look like saints compared to Myspace and Facebook, and why even though Wordpress.com has similar policies regarding content issues, why they've managed to avoid user wrath.
Also this is showing that whether you are Jane Fangirl or a big name SF person, speaking up for your friends rather than just waiting for them to say something doesn't work well. Eventually John Scalzi stopped his sniping/pissing match with languagehat, but man, that did lower my opinion of him. He should have just confined himself to stating that there was no evidence that Doctorow or Theresa Nielsen Hayden were personally involved in the actions, because by ignoring the reasonable criticisms, even though that was why he was ignoring them (because they were reasonable), he comes off as refusing to acknowledge them. TNH is not exactly covering herself with glory either. Essentially if you can't say anything, then don't say anything, and if you don't know the story, don't talk about the story as an insider. | | Monday, June 30th, 2008 | | 6:27 am |
| | Saturday, June 28th, 2008 | | 2:18 pm |
Hey, we'll make a book of fanfic and send it to the creators! In SPN fandom, Tahirire has created a comm called spn_legacy to organize her attempt to create a compilation of fanfic... to present to the actors and other creators. When she makes a post giving people the option to opt out, people finally begin to take interest in the project. There's just not much real wank yet, otherwise I would post it to the comm (maybe when Tahirire replies?) but I just kind of boggle at her for being plugged into the fanfic scene yet not knowing of the controversality of her project, to say the least. Speaking of SPN, I wonder what the story is behind this suggestion? (entirely unrelated, but same fandom) | | Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 | | 5:16 am |
http://carlanime.livejournal.com/468682.htmlIn general, I think nothing is wrong with anyone creating a wiki on past fandom events, but I've heard so many negative things about the owner moderating with too tight of a hand, and complaints about neutrality. On the other hand, I don't think it's wrong that they used a script to import ff.net information, as long as the content of the bios was not copied. However, there are also, as discussed in the comments, legitimate privacy concerns. The problem, I think, is that different fandoms have vastly different standards of privacy, and there is no legal recourse to being 'outed,' whereas there are legal standards to prevent other types of information from being shared, or at least site policies. | | Sunday, June 22nd, 2008 | | 4:28 pm |
http://lasultrix.livejournal.com/317980.html?style=mineFor "fandom" in this entry, read "slash fandom," and for "men" in this entry, read "gay and/or bisexual men." It's kind of an annoying shortcut, and totally obscures her point, because you then go "huh? WTF? There are tons of male fans, and in fact, in many fandoms they're the majority, especially if the work is directed at men in the first place." However, I kind of think her question is sort of bizarrely naive, in a way. Haven't there been TONS of wanks about this issue? I just don't see why one would be surprised. | | Tuesday, June 17th, 2008 | | 3:32 am |
fw_secrets
Huh, I was expecting wank and searing personal attacks, but it just seems to be a lot of incomprehensible, bad photoshoppery.
(No, I mean... I don't even know what they're referring to on half of them, esp. 9 and 12) | | Saturday, June 14th, 2008 | | 10:04 pm |
| | 12:50 pm |
http://alyburns.livejournal.com/444504.html?style=mineThis post is just weird. Is it news to anyone that actors sometimes get to have input into the directions of their characters? But it seems to me kind of bizarre to be SO against any change in character dynamics or against big developments of characters. And also equating "show being good" with "I can writes fanfic about it!" Frankly, I like change. If a show is just the same thing over and over again, why bother continuing to make it? | | Tuesday, June 10th, 2008 | | 4:58 am |
Eh, so now there's going to be a fw_secrets comm? Is there even any need to have secrets, when people are so open with their animosity?
Anyway, the whatever_secrets format annoys me because 95% of the time the graphics are ugly and not worth looking at, so you waste time loading them. Why not just you know... have text secrets? | | 3:51 am |
The circumstances behind the bandflesh wank confuse me. So what exactly did they accuse her of? Some kind of scam? And then something happened when the friend said she (the friend) wasn't on the meme but she was? But how does she know that they were really on the meme if the meme is an anon meme?
All I know if that someone is untrustworthy enough to talk smack about you on an anonymeme, they're untrustworthy enough to post smack to the meme and totally lie about posting there anyhow. So, that the meme exists is enough to make it a possibility that anyone is talking smack about you... If they admit to posting on the meme, doesn't that just point to the fact that they're actually more honest than the people who lurk or post without publicly declaring that they do so?
Also, if a friend is backstabbing you, they're probably doing it on chat programs or via email, whatever. At least if it's in public, you know what they're saying about you. | | Wednesday, June 4th, 2008 | | 4:18 am |
http://resolute.livejournal.com/500186.html?style=mineThis post is well meant, but it's full of blind spots. While it talks about 'genre fiction' (by which I guess she means SFF and mystery, and less romance. Although, why exclude non-genre fiction?), and opposes it with fanfiction, she ignores how fanfiction itself has genres, and conflates fanfiction with romance and erotica. Why is it that it is only in fanfiction 'sex can solve everything'? There is published fiction where that is so also. (Erotica) [As I think I said earlier, just compare to the stuff at literotica or something] Actually I think there are people who are trying to 'do better' already. It's just that many writers are not interested in 'doing better,' although most are willing to eliminate things that offend people. | | Wednesday, May 28th, 2008 | | 3:16 pm |
Keeping Our Eyes on the Prize Ladies and Gentlemen of fandom, This year's LJ Win a Free Trip to Istanbul By Making the Most Sockpuppets! Contest Election is indeed turning out to be a debacle. We are watching a display of immaturity, fradulence, dramatics and, dare I say it, wankery, all together uncharacteristic of our fair site. ( Who I Think Would Really Represent Fandom (satire) ) [Eh, personally I'm still not voting, but seriously, I wonder what LMM is doing. It really is like she's not the candidate, but is letting all these surrogates speak for her.] | | 7:42 am |
http://circa-eve.livejournal.com/1681.html?style=mineFrom the comments: "Rather, it could effectively be as though TPTB are appropriating fandom's subversive space and rendering it on screen, thereby eliminating the "need" for a slash fandom and quashing traditional slash fans level of engagement with the text." Gasp! They're oppressing slash fandom. By having gay relationships on screen. THE SCOUNDRELS. But, in a way, this is kind of where like BL fandom has been already. (BL=boy's love. Manga where the main pairing is m/m, aimed at women) But, even in fandoms for BL stuff, there is fanfiction being written and people making fanart, though much less than with shounen stuff, because a) the audience for these fandoms is on the whole smaller, and b) there is a lot less impulse to write fanfic because of fear of jossing/it's already there. See, this is another situation where the hmm, privileging of fanfic fandom is annoying me. This statement: " Not a fandom-y fan. But a fan. One of those normal fans, that didn't scour the internet for stories, and have a desire to know every single thing about the show, its actors, and their partners and pets. I think most Torchwood fans from slash fandom are feeling similarly, which is why we aren't seeing a huge creative fandom building up around Torchwood." So, in other words, she draws a distinction between two types of fans, regular old fans, and "fandom-y" fans who a) seek out fanfiction, and b) have an obsessive desire to know everything about the show. However, this is totally off, IMHO. First of all, those so called "normal fans" also have fandoms, in the sense that fandom means that they congregate in groups and can have a group identity. I think by saying "fandom-y" she implies that the fanfic-writing fandom is the only form of fandom that should be acknowledged as a group. Second, and far more puzzlingly, she seems to imply that writing fanfiction and being obsessed with a show are kind of linked, and doesn't seem to consider that you can have zero interest in fanfic, and yet still have this desire to know everything about the show. [Also, if you were writing fanfiction, why would you CARE necessarily about the partners and pets of the actors? That's kind of irrelevant, and there are lots of hard-core fanfic writers who don't] Anyway, she also doesn't seem to have considered that there are people who write fanfic for canon het couples, and yes, that there are fandoms for them! | | Tuesday, May 27th, 2008 | | 4:57 pm |
It pisses me off that people are encouraging people to email mods asking them to post LJ election ads because the Ohnotheydidnt mod made a post endorsing a candidate. Great, so all fandom comms should now be run according to the modly standards of ohnotheydidnt?
Spam is spam. If people care enough to be informed for any election type activity, they will find out. It was on the news comm. If anyone sends a letter like that the comm I'm a maintainer for, I'm going to laugh in their face. :P |
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