Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004, 01:24 pm
Trust on the Internet

One of the comments that struck me in the recent kerfluffle was one about people not "trusting" the Mods to not censor people.

Now, censorship is usually understood of in a government or institutional context - like a school - where The Powers That Be remove references to things they want to cover up. Think letters sent in the military with words blacked out.

On the internet, it is extraordinarily difficult to censor things - in fact I firmly believe that's why politicians have been avoiding it like the plague. If one place decides not to allow something to be up for public consumption, then some other place won't care, and for every country that wants to restrict information for it's citizenry, there are fifty more that either don't care or actively don't want to censor things (think SeaLand).

Fandom Wank now has Moderated Posting. The first post (though not any of the subsequent, interestingly) included a cry of censorship because someone who happens to be in the MockityMock Community had their one sentence post on Fandom Wank while someone who didn't happen to be in the MockityMock Community had to settle for posting it in her own journal and informing everyone she had made a different post in the first comment.

This is not censorship. Not even if you squint.
Current Mood: Brash
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 05:54 pm (UTC)
[info]pyratejenni

No, it's not.

It may be annoying and a bad idea, but it's not like there's nowhere else people could post wank. They could even, y'know, create a different community. There isn't a Wank Mafia waiting in the wings to hack your account. Or post in their own journals, and put up links in fandom_lounge for people to come and enjoy.
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 06:33 pm (UTC)
[info]darkwitch666

Amen, sistah. Testify.

If only the rest of the intarweb understood.
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 06:41 pm (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

I'd love it if they'd explain why they don't. I mean, there's even already a backup FW community in place.

Of course, in the true "suck up to the OP" fashion of private journals, I probably won't even get Jeff's dissenting anon.
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:16 am (UTC)
[info]darkwitch666

OMGDUNCENSORRZME!!!!111!WTFBBQ!!!1111!eleventy!


/Jeff's dissenting anon


Well, I tried. But it made me hate myself a little. Actually, I think I threw up in my mouth.
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:23 am (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

Mouthwash?
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 08:25 pm (UTC)
[info]bubosquared

Y'know, regarding the trust issue, I was wondering about something. Maybe it's because I missed DeleteGate, what with being busy moving my life to another country and all, but what's with the trust issues because of what was, in my opinion and only in retrospect, an (ill-conceived?) joke gone wrong? Maybe it's because I've seen far worse behaviour from mods, but people are all "trust issues!" and "We must have mods from outwith the Cabal and none of the new mods should be members of m_m!" and I just don't get it.

I mean, I see people's points, largely, but excluding people from modding because they're a member of a closed community? Meh. (If nothing else, that's gonna count out a lot of the more experienced members of f_w, who would be the logical choice for modly duties, I think.)
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 09:51 pm (UTC)
[info]phosfate

I don't know what the 'trust issues' thing is, either. I do know it seems to come from a tiny number of people. And I wonder why, if they are so paranoid about how f_w is run, they even bother to show up. My first reaction to a badly-run community or list is to leave.
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 09:59 pm (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

Well, FW is a Fandom Institution. When it's not a bunch of mean girls from HS, that is.
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 10:08 pm (UTC)
[info]bubosquared

Same here. (Well, now it is. I had to learn the hard way of course. And okay, seriously? It's not like the mods, say, deleted f_w forever and then started over somewhere secret with only the people they approved of. Or resigned as mods and left f_w in the charge of someone who'd not even been told they were now mods. Or denied people access to an archive where they had their own stories archived. Or deleted the comm cause someone they disagreed with linked to it. Perspective much?)
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 09:56 pm (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

I think the thing people objected to with DeleteGate (heee) was that they felt the Mods/Cabal/Their Momma were trying to "teach them a lesson." The post that was up for ~30 minutes before the delete helped - but it referenced both the "n00bs" and the "elite" as reasons for the deletion; I've noticed with amusement that no one has yet objected to the elite being blamed for the deletion.

Honestly, I think people wanna feel persecuted. They want to feel left out because then they can have a reason for why they don't get what they want or aren't what they want to be.

This is part of why I adore Ashe-kun's Hufflen00bs, because as it's done, it's such a parody of the "outsider" mentality.
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 10:13 pm (UTC)
[info]bubosquared

Yeah, and I also agree with [info]phosfate that it seems to be a tiny number of people. A tiny number of people with an axe to grind and a need to feel persecuted, but, unfortunately, a very vocal tiny number of people. Most of the people I've seen have been fair and balanced, no matter their view on the whole DeleteGate thing.

(And the vibes I later got that there might have been some "teaching them a LESSON!" undercurrent to DeleteGate is why I'd not have voted for the deletion had I been around, I think. But I also don't hold a fucking grudge for ages and develop goddamn TRUST ISSUES, y'know? Cause when it comes to the actual modding of the comm, I think the mods have been possibly too lenient, not too strict.)
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 12:30 am (UTC)
[info]pyratejenni

I think the thing people objected to with DeleteGate (heee) was that they felt the Mods/Cabal/Their Momma were trying to "teach them a lesson."

You're forgetting [info]bnfshavemorefun's long post about how the deletion was supposed to be a lesson. Or at least an attempt to "clean up" the community. I think that entry lingers more in people's mind than the Secret Cabal posts from GJ and LJ. Though the unwillingness shown by several in that thread to step forward once the supposed joke blew up probably didn't help, either.

This is part of why I adore Ashe-kun's Hufflen00bs, because as it's done, it's such a parody of the "outsider" mentality.

Between [info]mockity_mock and [info]hufflen00bs, I'd take [info]hufflen00bs.
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:06 am (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

Huh, now that you mention it, I do remember that post. I think BNFs... was one of the only people who thought it was at all lesson-teaching, though. I certainly didn't; I just thought it was a funny idea when I voted for it - but then, I participated in the Deathmatch fiasco, so perhaps my judgmenet is impaired.

And I was lucky; I got MM and Hufflen00bs.
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 01:50 am (UTC)
[info]pokecheck

Dude, overblown, relatively inconsequential persecution is so in this season. Persecution, it's the new...fuchsia.
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:03 am (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

Fuchsia is in? *shudders*
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:52 pm (UTC)
[info]ashenmote

*stomps little feet*

But hufflen00bs is no parody, it's expressionistic! It is a desperate attempt to communicate how I feel deep within my heart.

Anyway, I think the flamboyant flattery buys you five points for hufflen00bs.
*huggles*
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 09:46 pm (UTC)
[info]tekenduis

You're doing it wrong.

You can't see the censorship because you're not wearing proper headgear before you start squinting. Here, let me hook you up.

*hands you a little tin hat* There. Do you see the censorship now? :D
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Thu, Oct. 21st, 2004 09:57 pm (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

*gets distracted by the hat* Shiny... 5|-|1|\|`/!!!!

0_0 8) 8) 8)
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 12:23 am (UTC)
[info]pyratejenni

MINE! *steals vikes [info]deoridhe's hat*
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:04 am (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

*cries like a three year old whose favorite teddy bear was heartlessly ripped from her loving arms*
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:11 am (UTC)
[info]pyratejenni

*tears up [info]deoridhe's Asatru card, as she is obviously Teh Wimpy*
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:23 am (UTC)
[info]deoridhe

*takes a big stick and beats you up*
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 01:21 pm (UTC)
[info]pyratejenni

*whines on several email lists about how "honorless" [info]deoridhe is.
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 01:45 am (UTC)
[info]pokecheck

Maybe they're confusing censorship with discrimination by hauling the tyrranical cabal thing out again. Or maybe it's censorship by discrimination...or something. Anyway, people whine about discrimination even without moderated posting. Even if they were voted into modship they'd find a way to whine about discrimination.

Or maybe they can't tell time and are just very defensive.
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Fri, Oct. 22nd, 2004 02:43 am (UTC)
[info]phosfate

Or maybe they can't tell time and are just very defensive.

[jack]Ya think?[/jack]
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