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	glossing2 2006-08-04 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	Unhip, eh? Ha. I want to hear your thoughts on the "Men, Only Better" post that made me boggle. helpful (Reply to this)(Thread)

m_butterfly
2006-08-04 11:25 pm UTC (link)

Unhip, eh? Ha.

I'm constantly bemused by the way if something in fandom changes a bit, it ceases to exist entirely for most people. Like the people who argue there aren't any more BNFs because there's nobody who is like Cassie and Heidi were to HP fandom. Or this, which seems to amount to "Because nobody anymore goes 'THESE TWO CHARACTERS MUST BE PUT TOGETHER AND NOBODY ELSE CAN BE ADDED INTO THEM' slash isn't OTP-y anymore and SGA fandom is really inclusive of all pairings!"

It's that last that really hurts my brain, considering McShep is one of the worst fandom-swallowing OTP's I've seen in ages. The only large fandom that's worse right now is Who with Rose/Doctor--in fact, I've described Rose/Doctor to someone as "McShep, if it was blander, het, and had the show and creators talking in support of it."

I want to hear your thoughts on the "Men, Only Better" post that made me boggle. *helpful*

Got a link handy? *pokes about your journals to see if she missed it* I avoid metafandom generally now, and rely on incidences of friends grabbing me and going "Look at this!" This has made me, if not happier, at least less likely to try and get the evil geek I know to help me build a fandom-killin' death ray.

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glossing2
2006-08-04 11:37 pm UTC (link)

if something in fandom changes a bit, it ceases to exist entirely for most people
*snerk* And also amen.

McShep is one of the worst fandom-swallowing OTP's I've seen in ages
Hell, yeah, it really is. It's all the weirder to my eyes because neither of them is, y'know, interesting or attractive.

Got a link handy?
I didn't mention it either journal, because *so many* people revere the poster. Your policy of avoiding metafandom is parallel to my need to lock and avoid *everything*.

At any rate, it's here:

think making men more like women is an improvement, with the only caveat that by "women" I mean modern women, contemporary women--because gender being a highly constructed category, I'm not sure that women today have all that much in common with women of ages past, especially since women have historically been oppressed in a way that left them degraded, which is what oppression does. People who aren't allowed to be educated don't make scintillating conversation; everybody with me here? Great! I'm not talking about that, about men being, for lack of a better word, "girly". Today's women have already, I think, been masculinized for better (strength & education & income, yay!) and for worse (overwork, ego, violent tempers & heart attacks, boo!) and I'm waiting for men to return the favor

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m_butterfly
2006-08-07 10:46 pm UTC (link)

*snerk* And also amen.

I particularly love the way she thinks that the fact there are a lot of threesomes and moresomes with McShep proves that the fandom is so inclusive, and doesn't seem to notice that that very phrasing contradicts her point.

Hell, yeah, it really is. It's all the weirder to my eyes because neither of them is, y'know, interesting or attractive.

Oh, it's never struck me as weird, because SGA fandom and McShep in particular are almost an entirely fanon-created construct. The perception of the pairing that is common was almost completely built by the fans and as such nails about a billion common fannish kinks, and there's just enough in the text, and the structure of the show itself is just permissive enough, to completely convince most everybody that what they're discussing is canon, and obvious, and blatant.

What amuses me is every so often people try to get me to join SGA fandom. I hate it this much and I'm not even in it; I can't imagine what they think the result would be.

...and no, they aren't people who are doing it in hopes of massive flamewars, either.

I didn't mention it either journal, because *so many* people revere the poster.

Aaah, that author. I've had my own difficulties with that "she's deeply respected but she just said something that made my head explode with 'wtf are you SMOKING'" problem; she completely locked up my ability to meta about Wilson for a while because of a profound, overwhelming sense that nobody would listen, being as there was absolutely nobody in fandom who saw him the same way as I did. The incident involved my attempting to seriously speculate on his motives for something, and her suggesting it seriously involved his obvious tendency to fuck the hospital nurses behind the hazardous waste pick-up and then go brag to House about it.

I love the way I'm clearly not watching the same show as anyone else.

Your policy of avoiding metafandom is parallel to my need to lock and avoid *everything*.

Well, I haven't been declared anathema by half of Buffy fandom. Yours is a height I can only aspire to.

"think making men more like women is an improvement, with the only caveat that by "women" I mean modern women, contemporary women--because gender being a highly constructed category [yada yada spam]"

Eh, it doesn't seem that different from most "by slashing I am doing an awesome service to womankind" overly elaborate justifications I've seen. I find them all kind of dumb, really--especially when these people get all horrified about how belittling it is when other people go, "I like guy on guy. I find it hot. I find it hot to write them femmy ways sometimes. Deal?" To me, that is empowering, because that's what men have been doing for centuries--"I like girl on girl. I think butch girls are totally hot." It's about not having to feel ashamed of what you're doing, and therefore not having to justify it.

Of course, if we were discussing this on LJ, right around now someone, not that I'm going to name names, would show up to inform me that they do all this justifying because they enjoy it and it has nothing to do with shame, nothing.

(I'd actually give some credence to this theory, if not for a specific thing. I mean, everybody knows people enjoy spending a lot of time staring into their own navels, and the popularity of broody angst fic shows us that in fandom, people also enjoy spending a lot of time watching other people stare into their own navels. And oh god, this would make an 'interesting' performance art sketch. Anyway, it's not necessarily unlikely that that is a big motivation... but then we run into the people who are horrified, just disgusted, when someone does the aforementioned "I think boysex is hot. What's the big deal?" And that isn't accounted for at all in the "we just enjoy pondering the beautiful complexity of our brains" theory.)

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