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(Anonymous)
2008-10-25 02:36 am UTC (link)

That is very cool! I wish I could ID the side figures, but off the top of my head I'm getting "random priest" and "other random dude."

My conservation $.02: fold (with acid-free tissue crumpled in the folds so there aren't creases) it and store it in an acid-free container away from light and heat. Every so often, take it out and refold it so that the folds are in different places and the same areas aren't always stressed. Unless you're planning on displaying it, in which case I have no suggestions that aren't hideously expensive and impractical.

--siegeofangels

melannen
2008-10-25 03:04 am UTC (link)

It seems pointless to keep it without displaying it though! But yeah, displaying it would probably really _drastically_ shorten the lifespan, although at least the base canvas it was appliqued onto seems to be very strong still, so at least that wouldn't be a problem. (I actually am kind of hoping that somebody Kemetic wants it and will use it up. Or my sister will take it and do the hideously expensive and impractical conservation stuff!)

I am kind of thinking that the guy on the right might be a very innaccurate or idiosyncratic attempt at Ptah? The beard and the staff are kind-of right, and he has a ma'at symbol and a skullcap, even if it's not the right skullcap, but that's stretching it. I'm googling away at Horakhty and hoping I'll luck out and this was copied off of some well-know original. Though it's made to hang like a standard; I'm thinking it's possible it was for some fraternal society and has private symbolism that doesn't come out of ancient Egypt.

D'you have any ideas on who to ask to try to figure out where and when this came from and why it was made? Better ideas than "random online Egyptology communities" and "sister's archeology prof" and "History Detectives"?

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(Anonymous)
2008-10-25 01:57 pm UTC (link)

It's almost too cool to *not* display! But I'm guessing that your biggest enemy would be light damage, so you'd need to limit the amount of light hitting it, either by mounting it behind UV-protective glass of some sort, or keeping it in very low light. It might also need to be mounted onto yet another piece of backing to avoid stressing the original canvas.

Fraternal society sounds possible; I was going to go with "handmade by someone who liked the look of ancient Egyptian art but didn't know the symbolism," which would be even more impossible to research. I'm not sure who you could ask. You could always try a curator who works with a collection that includes twentieth-century textiles--they might be able to point you toward some reference materials (actually, when the American History Museum opens back up you might try their library). Curators are usually legally prohibited from appraising/giving conservation advice, and that might extend to helping identify an object. But "hey, what sources do you recommend I look at" might work.

Re. dude-without-beard: I'm going with "male" as I seem to remember women usually being portrayed with white skin rather than red. But normal symbolism may not apply in this case.

--siegeofangels

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melannen
2008-10-26 12:27 am UTC (link)

I'm actually thinking maybe quilt it to a backing (very carefully. With, I supposed, special acid-free thread) and then hang it on the inside of a closet door, as a sort of compromise between display and not-display. Maybe.

See update for update on provenance! I do have some reprints of old egyptology books, so I shall be looking at them to see if I can at least get an idea what would have been known. But yes, trip to DC to museums is looking like very good possibility.

RE: dude-without-beard: it looks like sometimes women are paler, sometimes not, and sometimes it's faded enough that it's hard to tell? Women are usually more shapely than that, but again, could be maker's inaccuracy...

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	(Anonymous) 2008-10-26 01:28 am UTC (link)
	That actually sounds like a pretty good compromise. 100% cotton, undyed = acid-free, I think. Re. provenance: ooh, the plot thickens! I agree on its almost certainly not being 200 years old, but the other possibilities do sound intriguing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	melannen 2008-10-25 03:33 am UTC (link)
	Now I'm thinking "dude without beard" may actually be "chick with bare breasts". Hmm. Archeology is hard! And me with all my Egypt books at the other house. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	stellar_dust 2008-10-25 03:22 am UTC (link)
	Ooh, made of awesome yes! What are the tab things at the top? My very first thought is, you ought to show it to artaxastra! (I do not know as much about conservation as you seem to think, alas.) (Reply to this)(Thread)

melannen
2008-10-25 03:30 am UTC (link)

They're loops, presumably to hang it by, much like the banner/standard things that hang at the front of the church, or the ones girl scout troops have.

Yes! I should! If I am less brain-dead tomorrow I'm planning to re-open my lj (and post book-give-away post, btw), so perhaps I will make sure all them LJ people sees it.

(I don't think you know lots about conservation; I think you have disposable income and a tendency to actually, like, spend it. :P

Not that you have *that much* disposable income, alas. Since doing it right would probably involve, like, climate-controlled uv-protected glass cases and such. But I can hope.)

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	stellar_dust 2008-10-25 03:45 am UTC (link)
	Not to mention display space! If I had that much disposable income and space, our Star Wars collection would have a much awesomer home. (Not that there's anything wrong with your room as a home for it ...) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	eleutheria 2008-10-25 04:31 am UTC (link)
	That quilt is gorgeous! I don't, though, know of anyone who could take it. The only Horus person I know already has a bunch of the Horus stuff I gave away when I left the cult, and isn't allowed to hang anything on her apt. walls. The only other Horus people I know are cult members, and I wouldn't want something this nice to fall into the hands of people so shitty. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	melannen 2008-10-26 12:35 am UTC (link)
	Alas. Well, it was an off-chance; this is the wrong Horus for Heru-ur anyway, isn't it? I just want to see it get used well. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

eleutheria
2008-10-28 08:23 am UTC (link)

Heru-ur people pretty much have to take any Horus imagery they can get, since the chances of finding anything that's actually Heru-ur, other than the crowned falcon statues, are somewhere between "nil" and "no chance in hell".

(Another thought on where to look for a potential home for it would be among Thelemites and Ceremonial Magicians, who have a love for Egyptophilia too. And often have more money.)

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	onyxnoir 2008-10-25 06:35 am UTC (link)
	I have a hunch that the other figures are poor representations of Osiris and Isis. This might shed some light. Again, it's just a hunch. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	melannen 2008-10-26 12:41 am UTC (link)
	Huh, any particular reason, except that Osiris and Isis are kind of the default? My immediate reaction is that the form of Horus on here is one that doesn't usually show up in Osirian stuff, but again, that could be the maker just not caring... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

onyxnoir
2008-10-26 05:59 am UTC (link)

Only reason I'm thinking Isis and Osiris is because Osiris is the father of Horus, and usually when I see the male and female figures together like that it turns out to be the two of them. I think the representations are off or 'stylized' because it was created with the uneducated american or european audience in mind.

I'm also highly doubting the 200 year old story. The blue green in it screams chemical dye at me, which they wouldn't have had 200 years ago. Also, remember anything associated with ancient Egypt became very popular in the 1920's with the discovery of King Tut's tomb. It influenced fashion, home furnishings, and architecture for years afterward.

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threegoldfish
2008-10-25 04:55 pm UTC (link)

I don't seem to have anything on textile conservation in my library but you might want to see if the Textile Museum in DC has any resources available. This might be of interest:

Ask-a-Curator, Ask-a-Conservator
This ongoing program, held the first Wednesday of every month (September through May) from 10:30 am to 1 pm, gives visitors the opportunity to learn more about their own textiles from Textile Museum curatorial and conservation staff. While Museum curators specialize in the textile arts of non-Western cultures, the conservation staff can answer questions about caring for textiles produced worldwide. Fee: free/members; $5/non-members. No reservations are required.

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	melannen 2008-10-26 12:39 am UTC (link)
	Ooh, that sounds excellent! I might just try it. Thank you! (Reply to this)(Parent)