That's awfully disturbing.

But no one rates LJ as being more important than real life, and what's important in real life will still be more important on the internet. I mean, there's a chance things can be lost in transition, but... well, they're not in this case.

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Eh. They were mostly nice to me. The folks with a hard on for me are the same folks that *always* have one for me, so yanno whatevers.

I do think there are people who have trouble separating real life from this crazy online existence. But thank god. The sane ones aren't nearly as entertaining.

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Well, I'm a frequent over at that place, though I didn't realize where you meant until a friend explained it to me. Though I don't have the links to prove it, the attack against Snacky was much, much worse. Also, commenting on someone's fuckability is incredibly common over there, and is applied to men and women - and usually men more often. Even if it is twisted and disturbingly nonchalant, the first mode of support you can give over there to someone who has just had their physical appearance insulted is "i'd hit it."

Frankly, I still agree with your overall statement. While your mocking of BJR made me uncomfortable, I agreed with this post because I find rating someone sexually appalling and usually conforms with and reinforces misogynistic views of women, and you never said, "No man would ever fuck BJR." But I think you overreacted.

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I really have no idea what happens over there - I saw this because someone showed it to me.

As far as the "attacks" on snacky - from what I saw I really don't think it was better or worse. I think snacky made a lot of hay about it, but hell. that Snacky seeks attention is not exactly a newsflash. The one I saw, IIRC, didn't even identify her, so unless you knew what snacky looked like, you wouldn't know it was her. Of course any sympathy I may have had for her went right out the window when I found out she was blaming me despite the impossibility of me actually perpetrating it. But whatever, grudge has a logic that logic knows not.

As for BJR, she raised the issue of physical fitness herself. I happened to find it incredibly amusing given her own lacking in survival categories. Not my nicest moment, not my worst. BUT regardless, she invited the question.

I, on the other hand, did not. Anatsuno did not. Resmirada did not. That is a significant difference.

I have to wonder if you're so uncomfortable about a comment I made about BJR a year ago, then why are you "a frequent over at that place" where "commenting on someone's fuckability is incredibly common"?

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I think you likely missed quite a lot of the Snacky thing because, yes, as someone who saw it, I'd say it was a lot worse than what you got. A lot of them were screened or deleted.

People continually posted her picture and attacked her and it VICIOUSLY. It didn't stop until she basically came onmeme and talked to people.

I am NOT saying that you're out of line in not liking any of this. All I'm saying is, there were several levels of things that went on onmeme and I would say that what she got was closer to a pure attack than what you did.

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I don't claim I was attacked actually. I dislike the idea on principle.

As for snacky, you're right - I don't know that. I saw one picture on a meme, that I don't think was even identified as her. Frankly I don't see what one has to do with the other, or why we're even talking about snacky. And honestly, given that people are regularly attacked VICIOUSLY at that place where you do happen to be a mod, I'm confused what your stand is.

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I know that you dislike the idea on principle.

I'm talking about Snacky because it was brought up in the first place and what I saw being mentioned was not what I remember.

And my stance is that it's not my place to police anything that happens there that does not involve the breaking of flock, confidence or TOS. However, I don't think that this means that I can't get annoyed at stuff that happens, or that I can't keep track of or notice things happening.

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I really wish I could give you a link to the thing on Snacky, but I honestly can't. Having read it after it happened I still say it was worse, but I can't prove it. Sorry.

To put it like a thesis paper, I feel that the "i'd hit it" phenomenon is only a symptom of society's overall emphasis on sexuality as a defining characteristic of worthiness and power. I personally don't participate in those threads simply because I am not really a very sexual person. I have never commented that it bothered me because, honestly? Reaffirming their right to have sexual desire is a big issue for women - because in Western society, like I said, sexuality is power. While it makes me uncomfortable to see people reduced to sexual objects, I have no desire to limit an expression of desire for women who are so rarely allowed to do so in real life without being treated like a little kid with a stupid crush or a slut. I might even be reading it differently than they truly feel - being not very sexual myself, I can't imagine "i'd hit it" as literally as they may be typing it, but instead as another manifestation of the stereotypically masculine view of sexuality. While it may be idiotic and mildly offensive, it's not the root of the problem.

Many, many things make me uncomfortable about that place. A joke of "LOL FATTY" is one of the most popular methods of trolling, and we've had our arguments over obesity and the paternalism society responds to it with. That's not to say that's what really bothered me about your mocking of BJR. Your comment on BJR - well, it was unnecessary. Everyone knows she couldn't do anything she said she could - and it had no basis on her physical fitness, because that hurricane would've hit her even if she was walking in prime condition. Since I feel it was unnecessary, it looks personal. Adding that personal flavor is just a little too much no matter where it is. In any case, if you want a barrier between real life and online life, then you have to respect it.

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...and I think that expressing "power" along sexist, demeaning and patriarchally acceptable outlets is anything but "powerful" for women. It may not be the root of your problem, but it was in fact what I was talking about.

In truth, you appear to be labouring under the misunderstanding that I was claiming I was "attacked" or "hurt" by these going ons. Actually, as I've said a couple of times, I'm not that fussed about what was said about me. I was incredibly stupid to leave icons up, but that was my error.

The point of my post was more that I dislike the idea on principle, and I think the other threads were really nasty and unpleasant. For me this is more of a "why do women insist on doing this to each other" point, and not OMG my pictures are on the internets!!!! You are of course free to justify/defend it all you like, and I do understand that as a participant of that place it must seem that I am attacking you personally. I'm not. I think the fuss about the BJR post is misleading and an attempt create justification for unjustifiable behaviors. I also think it's clear that one or two people with very old grudges are happily hiding behind anonymity to launch nonsensical ad hominem attacks, like: because I disliked BJR, and because BJR is fat = oulangi hates fat people. This is so stupid, I almost don’t want to dignify it with a response. But what if instead of "fat" they said "Jews" or "black people"? I hope we agree that the thingImentionnot should/would get ToS'd. Yet for some reason its OK to bandy about charges of that sort of prejudice, because its "fat" not race. This says a helluva lot more about the people on thatplaceIwillnotmention than about me.

In any case, if you want a barrier between real life and online life, then you have to respect it.

Hey, thanks for falling into that other stereotypical behavior of justifying this nonsense with the classic "because she deserves it" excuse. I look forward to your outline of what anatsuno and resmiranda and hell, snacky did to warrant inclusion.

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Thank you. That whole thing has been making me really sad and uncomfortable and a little angry too. I'm glad I'm not alone.

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I don't really mind what people were saying. But as an exercise, I didn't particularly care for it.

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Um...so you're hot.

And stuff.

I agree but yeah.

You're hot.

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Eh. There are some really godawful pictures of me floating around from Lumos.

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Hmm, I'm beginning to be thankful for spending so much time in doctors' offices again.

~points to own av~

And that is one of the reasons that is the only thing many will see of me. All too often things have absolutely been about my looks. I like playing in this space where anonymity abounds. Where my written word should cary more weight than some other arbitrary standards of physicality.

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I agree with you. The point is that any woman with a minimal level of attractiveness automatically has to deal with this shit everywhere else. Why randomly start it here?

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~humms along with you~
/choir

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:|

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:$

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I don't really think of the internet as a female space, though I do think of most of the places I hang out on it, as female dominated.

Women complain that they’re treated like meat in the outside word, and yet what do we do in our own space? It’s so ridiculous and pathetic I really have nothing more to say about it.

Word. =/

This is where I sort of get the issue that some feminists occasionally make, that a lot of women are indoctrinated by the patriarchy to keep passing bad practices, things that are bad for women on. And then I feel dirty, because people have self responsibility, and and some people are just asses anyway, regardless of influences on their life.

And uh, it's a gorgeous icon?

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that a lot of women are indoctrinated by the patriarchy to keep passing bad practices, things that are bad for women on
Exactly. Personally, I have ups and down. Certainly - as was pointed out - I have made uncharitable comments about BJR. Which, eh not wonderful of me. I think she made it the issue by raising survival of the fittest - but its a poor excuse. The truth is what you said; that we are raised indoctrinated, we do fall into things we shouldn't, and hopefully when we see realize it we stop. Some people will never understand that - but hell, some people are never going to understand the metric system either.

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They did that a few years ago, to prove that fanartists were more attractive than fanficcers. There's enough 'you look very different from the way I've imagined you' (RL meeting for work after contacting by email and phone) to 'I always imagined you with dark hair' (meaning I don't sound as stupid as I look?) from people I do meet, that I don't need that online. Once had a few icons with myself too, also for flocked posts, until I realized anyone can see all your icons. < /semi-LJ literate >

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I had a few of those "you don't look like I thought you would" at Lumos. I think we all expect people to look sort of like their icons. Thus Irinaauthor is MadamX, cleolinda is Galadriel, etc. I was weirdly off balance when several Lumos people did not look like Snape, but instead looked like normal women.

The icons were not brilliant, but GOD I barely know what Icons I have anyway. for a while I sort of parked stuff at either account thinking I might like it someday.

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I think we all expect people to look sort of like their icons.

What? Are you implying I'm not a dead ringer for Naga? If puipui doesn't have bunny ears, I'm going to be very disappointed.

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OMG If puipui doesnt have bunny ears I think we need to hold her down and glue some on. She is SO bunny ear girl to me!

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Clearly someone needs to organize a whiparound to pay for my plastic surgery. It's the only way, I think.

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I would donate to this.

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Finally, a cause I can get behind.

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I was weirdly off balance when several Lumos people did not look like Snape

*snort*

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Not to mention the people who *did* look like Snape.

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I'm making an exception here, I'd like to see pics now, oh yes.

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HAHAH I AM GOING TO POST PICTURES OF YOUR BOOBS IN THE INTERNTSES!!

Just kidding, I'm being a cock. :D Where was this rating of fandom attractiveness happening? I didn't see/hear about it.

Also, you going to Phoenix Rising?

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Not sure.
I really want to go to sectus, and have a chance to visit my mum. I messed up the dates of the two cons, and now my travel partner really wants to go to England in May to see some wonky band. I'm still trying to figure it out, but I'm hoping to.

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I have no idea where this is going on or what is going on (thankfully) but what I do get just sort of makes me go :(

Then again, I may be overweight and out of shape and have spent most of my life struggling with blood sugar issues, but I'm happily married and get regular sex, so I can just laugh in a condescending manner at people who build themselves up by ripping apart other people's looks. ;)

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Very excellent point. Everyone needs to listen to Margret Cho on self esteem 100x and stop being silly.

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...nnnnnot asking. Coffee?

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