For the record. For whatever the record is worth.
I agree with

t_boy here.

I don't know if that matters, or anyone cares, but I'm curious whether most people don't. Agree with him, I mean. And as another Fandom Wank Muslim (we should have a list! and our own tired old in-joke!), I wonder if somehow neither of us got the memo that Islamist is the same as Muslim. Hell, I used to get pissed off when people said Islamist because that's not the correct term, until I picked up on the implied distinction. (And it totally makes sense! Muslim are followers of Islam, Islamists use Islam. One's about God and one's about politics.)

So there. If he's wrong, we're both wrong.

EDIT: Okay, so I finished actually reading the thread (I, um, thought it ended with the ealusaid exchange? and didn't notice all the other comments?) and I'm not quite sure what I'm agreeing with him about anymore. I thought the disagreement was over whether Islamist is a slur against all Muslims? And I don't think it is. THERE, I'VE SAID IT.

it's hard being me. shut up.

(Post a new comment)

ashenmote
2008-05-31 11:24 pm UTC (link)

For all that I know, 'islamist' is a relatively new, artificial term to cover various groups from the fanatic, militant, political subset of Islam. And while it has the disadvantage of being imprecise, it has the advantage of being the badly needed term that allows to make a distinction between those groups and the moderate majority in Islam, so...yeah, in my understanding someone who uses the term takes pain to avoid slurs against all Muslims.

The only problem is, I know that is the use of the term in Germany and I know I can expect every halfway-educated German to understand what it does and doesn't mean, but I would be cautious as hell if I were to use it on the Internet. Because I have no idea if it is established the same way in other countries.

And when I look at the reactions in the linked thread? I really start thinking it isn't.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	panthea 2008-06-01 05:58 am UTC (link)
	Part of it also is that, by this point, I've gotten very, very good at avoiding things that I know are going to piss me off. So I haven't often come across "Islamist" used as a slur, because I tend to avoid people or situations where it would be used as such. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ashenmote 2008-05-31 11:26 pm UTC (link)
	Sorry for double-posting, JF gives me the "sorry there was a problem" treatment when I hit post. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	panthea 2008-06-01 05:55 am UTC (link)
	Weird part is, the only notification I got was for this comment. WTF JF. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rotten_fish
2008-06-01 02:14 am UTC (link)

As far as I read - and it wasn't far - they didn't know he was Muslim and they took at as a slur. I don't know, man, he dug himself into a hole by being really angry. I think they then objected to him making it about Islamists when, you know, death threats work are something lots of groups/persons have done. If you know what I mean. They haven't got a patent, so it seemed grating to the others he brought them up? Idk, I don't really know much about the religion, and my eyeballs kept sliding off the page at their angry. Idk, idk.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	panthea 2008-06-01 05:56 am UTC (link)
	I think they then objected to him making it about Islamists when, you know, death threats work are something lots of groups/persons have done. Yeah, that was the part that prompted my edit; that's a valid objection and I don't think I'm with him there. But I will totally defend "Islamist" as a legitimate term until someone provides a convincing reason not to. (Reply to this)(Parent)

*butts in*

alya1989262
2008-06-01 03:18 pm UTC (link)

Well, I use Islamist as 'person who wants to apply Islam to politics' (and I'm usually specifically thinking of the Muslim Brothers, here), but not necessarily in the sense of 'Muslim terrorist', which is the way t_boy used it. But I got what he meant.

I feel bad for him, because I don't think he was wrong at all; it was a problem of semantics. But he descended into wanking really fast, which, for someone I'd pegged as sane, he's been doing pretty often lately. :/

Ahem. I hope you don't mind me butting in to give my Serious Thoughts.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: butts in panthea 2008-06-01 06:16 pm UTC (link)
	I don't mind at all! And I pretty much agree with you re: meaning, and what t_boy was trying to say, and why that's problematic but not quite so much as other people seem to think. I usually like him, so his wankery saddens me. (Reply to this)(Parent)