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queencallipygos (![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} queencallipygos) wrote,@ 2008-02-13 11:12:00 |
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For Seiberwing:
"So your definition of the word 'cult' is that it's a word that shouldn't be used at all, as far as I can tell."
No -- only that it should be used with GREAT care, and pertaining to a very SPECIFIC set of actions.
"While I agree that it should be used less, last I heard from my Psych classes was that a cult was defined as something harmful to its members, containing brainwashing in the most literal sense of the term that does not involve actual dishwashing liquid, and refused to let its members leave. Scientology does all of this."
My biggest disagreement with you probably goes to the DEGREE of brainwashing. You quoted this passage from the OCRT site:
"Popular, media usage: A cult is considered a small, evil religious group, often with a single charismatic leader, that engages in brainwashing and other mind control techniques, believes that the end of the world is imminent, and collects large amounts of weaponry in preparation for a massive war. "
The difference FOR ME is that while Scientology IS definitely manipulative, it is only using FINANCES as a manipulation tool, as opposed to starving people and subjecting them to sleep deprivation as a manipulation tool. YOu get pressured to gradually spend more and more money to get yourself into "Clear" or whatever, but at no time are you asked to move onto a compound, turn all your estate outright over to anyone, and live on gruel and sleep only four hours a day.
THAT is the difference for me -- you are manipulated wildly, yeah, but they are STILL falling just shy of the Jonestown/Waco/Hale-Bopp-Comet model, and THAT is where I draw the line.
" And...why do you have a problem with people fighting an evil organization anyway?"
I never said I had a problem with people fighting an evil organization. I am only saying I am having a problem with people saying that a religion IS an evil organization, as opposed to just an organization that evil people use to their own ends. Fight all the evil organizations you want -- hell, fight religions if you want too. Just tread carefully with religions, is all I hope people do when doing so.
"So your definition of the word 'cult' is that it's a word that shouldn't be used at all, as far as I can tell."
No -- only that it should be used with GREAT care, and pertaining to a very SPECIFIC set of actions.
"While I agree that it should be used less, last I heard from my Psych classes was that a cult was defined as something harmful to its members, containing brainwashing in the most literal sense of the term that does not involve actual dishwashing liquid, and refused to let its members leave. Scientology does all of this."
My biggest disagreement with you probably goes to the DEGREE of brainwashing. You quoted this passage from the OCRT site:
"Popular, media usage: A cult is considered a small, evil religious group, often with a single charismatic leader, that engages in brainwashing and other mind control techniques, believes that the end of the world is imminent, and collects large amounts of weaponry in preparation for a massive war. "
The difference FOR ME is that while Scientology IS definitely manipulative, it is only using FINANCES as a manipulation tool, as opposed to starving people and subjecting them to sleep deprivation as a manipulation tool. YOu get pressured to gradually spend more and more money to get yourself into "Clear" or whatever, but at no time are you asked to move onto a compound, turn all your estate outright over to anyone, and live on gruel and sleep only four hours a day.
THAT is the difference for me -- you are manipulated wildly, yeah, but they are STILL falling just shy of the Jonestown/Waco/Hale-Bopp-Comet model, and THAT is where I draw the line.
" And...why do you have a problem with people fighting an evil organization anyway?"
I never said I had a problem with people fighting an evil organization. I am only saying I am having a problem with people saying that a religion IS an evil organization, as opposed to just an organization that evil people use to their own ends. Fight all the evil organizations you want -- hell, fight religions if you want too. Just tread carefully with religions, is all I hope people do when doing so.
