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ryuutchi ([info]ryuutchi) wrote,
@ 2008-03-27 02:21:00


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Current mood:Righteous

I knew I should have just ignored those "feminist" blogs and gone to bed. But no, I had to go look. Anti-porn-- okay, I can sort of understand it, even if I totally and utterly disagree. Anti-prostitution-- I think they're fucking over truly great feminist movements towards de-criminalizing prostitution and making it the sort of job where women DON'T have to get raped and beaten without anywhere to turn, but... I suppose I see where they're coming from.

But god, the AGEISM. I went looking and apparently, since most feminists my age are pretty pro-porn and pro-sex work, we don't understand feminism and it's been watered down by patriarchal institutions (nevermind that I'm somewhere between bisexual and lesbian, my grandmother and great-aunt were feminists and socialists who knew Emma Goldman, and my mother was a DIE-HARD second-wave feminist-- of course my mother also married a man, so what does she know?) I just... it's not so much that that's the worst thing the group said, not with the weird race, class, sex, and gender biases, so much as it is sort of the straw that broke the camel's back. Just seeing how little respect these women have for the experiences of people who are coming from a different place... it turns my stomach.

I hope someone punches me in the face if I ever turn into that sort of activist.



(Post a new comment)


[info]paranoidandroid
2008-03-27 11:48 am UTC (link)
Hi, I just stumbled upon your entry. I think you're a bit naive concerning the prostitution issue.
Here in Germany, prostitution was largely decriminalized a few years back. It is now possible to register as a prostitute for all kinds of insurances and social security, and the women can (theoretically) sue customers for the agreed payment.

The result: The country is now SWAMPED with forced prostitutes from Eastern Europe. The prices the women can demand dropped so low that many now have to take every customer they can get, even if they have a bad feeling about them.
Since the profession as such is no longer illegal, the police can't interfere in the red light districts as much as they used to, so the pimps can rule more freely than ever.
Just recently I read about a court case: The employees of a large brothel sued their bosses because they had to walk around naked in the house for their whole shifts. Their complaint was dismissed because as legal employers, the brothel owners are now allowed to give those kinds of orders.
After more than five years, not a single person has registered for social security.

Let's face it, prostitution is and always will be an ugly issue. There is now way it can ever turn into a normal kind of profession.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ealusaid
2008-03-27 02:15 pm UTC (link)
Because obviously Germany is the only place prostitution has been legalized, and the German way is the only way to do it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ashenmote
2008-03-27 02:50 pm UTC (link)
I imagine the forced prostitution issue is more a result of the boom of organized crime in Eastern Europe after the breakdown of the Soviet Union and of the EU-expansion with the abolition of border controls.

And before that the forced prostitution waited along the freeways of Poland for the german "tourists", so the issue isn't exactly new, it just moved in now.

But yeah, just because they changed a few laws and prostitution is no longer legally required to be a shameful and shady business doesn't magically change the rules. It's just a small first step in the right direction, and yes, probably badly executed too. Just, without this first step? There isn't even an option that things will ever change.

As it is, I don't see any registrations for social security coming unless a prostitute in Germany can actually afford this and, you know, people can write a few years of prostitution in their CV and then still get a job with it.

No, I don't know how to get there either.

[/yet another stumbling German]

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-27 03:14 pm UTC (link)
Okay, my first comment was poorly worded. Maybe the new laws are a step in the right direction - I certainly hope so for all those girls out there.
I just find it hard to believe that order and justice might ever exist in a profession which (I guess) at least 90% of the workers "choose" out of sheer desperation.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ryuutchi
2008-03-27 07:09 pm UTC (link)
Well, there is a difference between "legalization" and "de-criminalization". And there are plenty of advocacy groups that are working on the latter.

I wish I knew more about Germany's situation, though. Only a few places in US have even made that first step.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ryuutchi
2008-03-27 07:19 pm UTC (link)
I'd suggest looking up "sex worker advocacy".

Consider sex work's history as a profession-- people's attitudes towards it aren't going to magically change with the laws. However, the laws should be created to help with the excesses in the treatment of women-as-prostitutes. For instance, one would hope that making sex work legal would mean that police should be able to interfere in an abusive workplace (you wouldn't let your boss hit you, right?) If the laws aren't working the way they should, get them changed.

IIRC, the Netherlands, for instance, have outlawed pimps.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ealusaid
2008-03-27 02:14 pm UTC (link)
I read the rant on Firefly and went, "Oh, THAT'S why all the guys I know flinch when I say I'm a feminist!"

I agree with you about the race/class/gender biases. I am really turned off by the fact that in trying to be more inclusive and realizing how much all those different biases intersect, I magically stop being feminist.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ryuutchi
2008-03-27 07:42 pm UTC (link)
I originally found the link my flist beside the comment "this is why I don't call myself a feminist. The 1% makes the other 99% look crazy." That comment, more than anything else said about this issue, hurt.

It's really weird to hear someone be so "if come at this from any other direction, you're WRONG." It feels like Jack Chick-feminism. Not in the evangelical Christian sense, but in the sense of saying "if you disagree with me on even one point, you're wrong and will be consigned to hell/being part of the patriarchy."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ealusaid
2008-03-27 07:44 pm UTC (link)
This is why I adore James Nicholl's I don't hold reasonable feminists responsible for what crazy feminists say. I hold them responsible for what crazy chess grandmasters say. This isn't any more reasonable than holding them responsible for what crazy feminists say but I hope it's at least a change of pace.

I just try to be more vocal about my more reasonable feminism, to see if I can alleviate anything.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ryuutchi
2008-03-27 07:58 pm UTC (link)
I really want that quote on an icon. It makes me giggle every time I read it.

Yeah. That's really the only thing we can do. But it's still very D:

(Reply to this)(Parent)


iwanttobeasleep
2008-03-27 09:52 pm UTC (link)
I hate the people who say "This is why I don't call myself a feminist." I don't want to be associated particularly with Michael Moore, but I'm still a fucking Democrat and I'm going to call myself that. If some single minded ass thinks that means I buy into the 9/11 conspiracy or want to beat everyone who doesn't speak PC (Okay, that one is true, but that's beside the point), it's not my or democracy's fault.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ryuutchi
2008-03-27 10:22 pm UTC (link)
Hell, lots of people think Fred Phelps is crazy, but that doesn't stop plenty of people from calling themselves Christian.

Why should you let the whackjobs dictate how you label yourself? They're the lunatic fringe for a reason.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


 
   
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