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Avocado ([info]white_serpent) wrote,
@ 2007-11-06 16:27:00


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That stupid Lexicon timeline thing.
Okay. So, this is the only issue that interests me in the Lexicon lawsuit, and, rather than babble on f_w endlessly about it, I'm going to put it here. Scroll on by if you don't care (wise!).



So, RDR books has indicated on their website which timeline they believe to be copied. Specifically, the timeline at issue is the day calendar for book one, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. The reason they believe the timeline is copied is because the date of Harry's first visit to Hagrid's hut is given as September 7 on the official timeline, when it should clearly be September 6, according to the book. And the September 7 error was one that appeared on the HP Lexicon site until a revision, as noted on the timeline page. (And, actually, let's just link in the Wayback machine to the old timeline with the error as well, shall we?)

The Official Timeline of Hogwarts (CS/dvd) matches this timeline almost exactly. Events which are actually listed on that timeline are indicated on this calendar in red. There is one other adjustment which must be made in order to make the calendar agree with the books: September 7 is listed on the Official Timeline as being when Harry and Ron visit Hagrid in his hut. This was an error which also appeared on this calendar until my most recent revision. Curiously, the DVD timeline happened to reproduce the error from the Lexicon timeline. At any rate, the 7th is a Saturday, while the book states that they visited Hagrid on the afternoon of the Friday of their first week. This calendar now places that visit on Friday, September 6, which is correct.

Aha! So clearly this means something.

Except for the part where it doesn't.

Why? Skip up a couple of paragraphs. It is noted there that the calendar for 1991 (apparently the proper year, according to the DVDs) doesn't match up with the book's calendar. Harry's birthday is stated to be on a Tuesday, when it should actually be a Wednesday in 1991:

Monday. This reminded Harry of something. If it was Monday -- and you could usually count on Dudley to know the days the week, because of television -- then tomorrow, Tuesday, was Harry's eleventh birthday. Of course, his birthdays were never exactly fun -- last year, the Dursleys had given him a coat hanger and a pair of Uncle Vernon's old socks. Still, you weren't eleven every day. (Chapter 3)

So they take out a day, to make July 31 fall on a Tuesday, then add in a day afterward. They have to do this, you see, or September 1 (when Harry is to go to King's Cross, according to McGonagall's letter in Chapter 4) would be a Saturday. This makes "the next day" a Sunday, and the book indicates that:

Whispers followed Harry from the moment he left his dormitory the next day. People lining up outside classrooms stood on tiptoe to get a look at him, or doubled back to pass him in the corridors again, staring. Harry wished they wouldn't, because he was trying to concentrate on finding his way to classes. (Chapter 8)

And obviously that can't be right, because there wouldn't be classes on Sunday! Ha! So, clearly, the extra day needs to be added to shift September 1 to a Sunday (while keeping Harry's birthday on Tuesday), and, lo, this makes the 6th a Friday, when Harry has the afternoon free, and is invited to tea with Hagrid. The Lexicon foolishly had an error in previous versions of the timeline, indicating that this was the 7th, which appeared on the DVD timelines, and so..., since it doesn't say the 6th, they obviously copied!


The problem here is that there's another entirely plausible way that the visit to Hagrid could fall on September 7: and that's if September 7 is a Friday.

This is precisely what happens if you have Harry's birthday remain on July 31 (a Tuesday), and then, instead of adding another day into the calendar to make it match up to 1991, simply ignore that the book claims classes start on "the next day" after September 1 (a Saturday). Instead, assume they start September 3, or assume there are classes on Sunday. Then the first Friday after the start of classes is indeed September 7.

Now, if SVA can show the wording on his timeline is entirely the same as that used on the DVDs, he may have something. (ETA: Or, that other events occurring on specified days of the week are shifted by a day in the DVD timeline from the September 7 Hagrid tea event, I suppose.) But the date issue, when the Lexicon timeline adds and subtracts a day to make it match up with the 1991 calendar? I don't think that's much of an argument that the DVD timeline is copied.

ETA2: (Oh, God! I'm turning into Cleolinda!) Well, I have continued working through the official timeline vs. Lexicon timelines/day calendars. By doing my own calculations based on the information in the books, I've produced my own timelines.

In essence, WB must have used the Lexicon's timelines, because the Lexicon is not so good at arithmetic. Because WB duplicates several of the Lexicon's errors (I have a list), they almost certainly did use the timelines.

Even so, however, that's not a problem, because you can't copyright arithmetic (even bad arithmetic). Anyone and everyone is free to use the Lexicon's date calculations; they sure as hell can't copyright them.

So, next point: expression. In many cases, the text on the two timelines matches or nearly matches... but, in nearly all of them, the Lexicon's text is an exact copy of the text in Rowling's books, or, at best, a paraphrase of the book text using several words of Rowling's unique expression... so the text on the Lexicon's timeline is plagiarized anyway, and they can hardly scream if the copyright and/or trademark holder makes use of it. In a few cases, the Lexicon's expression is distinctly different from that used in the books and matches portions of the expression used in the WB timeline.

But, since the Lexicon can't copyright the timelines, we can find those 2-3 instances of likely plagiarism icky, but that's pretty much it. If SVA thinks that allows him to sue for copyright infringement, he is a complete moron.

Layout: WB used a few dates from the timelines as a framework for people to view video clips from the movies, and this bears no resemblance to the layout used by the Lexicon.

In short, I can't imagine there's anything remotely actionable here. The use of the Lexicon's arithmetic is funny (considering the errors) but not objectionable. The few instances of plagiarism by WB are icky, and I don't have to like them.

I should also say: the reason this interests me is because I am interested in plagiarism. The copyright infringement suit by JKR/WB does not interest me, because I find it very hard to imagine RDR/SVA publishing anything that bears the remotest resemblance to the HP Lexicon that doesn't constitute copyright infringement, so I don't think there's much to discuss there.


(Post a new comment)


[info]miraba
2007-11-07 01:43 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the analysis. I was hoping someone would be less lazy than myself.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2007-11-07 04:27 am UTC (link)
You're welcome.

What confuses me about the big "gotcha" on dates and days of the week is that:
  • the Lexicon's timeline for Order of the Phoenix has September 1 occurring on Thursday, and September 2 occurring on the following Tuesday

  • the Lexicon's timeline for Goblet of Fire requires that September 1 be repeated twice for the events to fit in correctly, and has an extra day added in later, as well as bizarre dates and intervals

  • the Lexicon's timeline for Prisoner of Azkaban notes the existence of huge discrepancies in dates (Buckbeak's hearing, the last day before exams); I seem to recall other people griping about the book forcing two full moons to be impossibly close together

  • the Lexicon's timeline for Chamber of Secrets indicates that Valentine's day is on a Sunday, which makes no sense because Harry has classes.

I think the Lexicon should be hesitant to make the argument that any event clearly corresponds with any calendar date/day of the week except as specifically stated in the text itself. The books aren't very careful about dates, and they should know it very well by this point, seeing as they note these problems in each timeline.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]puipui
2007-11-07 02:40 am UTC (link)
So what it all boils down to, you're saying, is that Steve Vander Ark is a whore?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]puipui
2007-11-07 02:42 am UTC (link)
PS: I think you should post this in the comments to Post 5, BTW. You could get your own ETA! And I also I find it interesting, and I am all about my own entertainment.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2007-11-07 02:49 am UTC (link)
I'm on it! Even if I'm not sure I understood any of it. I'm a little bleary at this point.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]puipui
2007-11-07 02:52 am UTC (link)
I'm on it!

I had a feeling you would be. XD

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2007-11-07 03:13 am UTC (link)
Now you know why I keep notifications turned on--all the news comes to me! I'm just the compiler, yo.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]white_serpent
2007-11-07 03:58 am UTC (link)
Exactly so!

I'm not saying there's no chance that WB lifted his timeline. But, if the September 7th vs September 6th thing is the only thing he's basing his claim on (and it's the only proof I've seen mentioned to date), he's got nothing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sepiamagpie
2007-11-07 09:10 am UTC (link)
I don't think I understood any of that. I may be a little dumb.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]dragonfangirl
2007-11-07 11:08 am UTC (link)
I think what it boils down to is "Steve claimed that the timeline was lifted because it made the same errors as his version. However, there are several different ways that whoever was making up the timeline could have come up with an error that matched Steve's, without ever having to glance at his website."

Personally, I think that Steve's gotcha is gotcha'd, because he said something to the effect that the DVD timeline had copied a typesetting or typographical error in the text, when it is, in fact, a content error. And the chances of two people hitting the same content error by coincidence is much, much more likely than the chance of them making the same typo by coincidence, so Steve can't prove it's deliberate.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]puipui
2007-11-07 11:25 pm UTC (link)
I especially liked the part where what the Lexicon claims is an error isn't actually an error, and how the Lexicon's "correction" involved adding an extra imaginary day to August (August 9th and 3/4?) and then yelling that WB had stolen the Lexicon's work because they had the version that didn't have any imaginary days added to August. Nice.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2007-11-10 02:25 am UTC (link)
The problem here is that there's another entirely plausible way that the visit to Hagrid could fall on September 7: and that's if September 7 is a Friday.

This is precisely what happens if you have Harry's birthday remain on July 31 (a Tuesday), and then, instead of adding another day into the calendar to make it match up to 1991, simply ignore that the book claims classes start on "the next day" after September 1 (a Saturday). Instead, assume they start September 3, or assume there are classes on Sunday. Then the first Friday after the start of classes is indeed September 7.


Throughout the series:
a) there is no mention of any organised wizarding religion which needs a free period in the school schedule,
b) there is no mention of any scheduled school-wide hobby, recreational or club time that might take up the week-end in a non-academic way, and
c) there is no mention of any particular break in school activity on the weekends (with the exception of periodic visits to Hogsmeade by the senior years).

We need to remember that Hogwarts is a private, residential school of the sort which traditionally has at least some scholarly activity on every day of the week (well, would you want 1000 or so kids wandering around with nothing to do?!), and as such I think it's easily within the bounds of possibility that Harry and co. had lessons on Saturdays/Sundays - which negates the need for that added-in day of SVA's.

In short, I agree - I can't see Harry taking tea with Hagrid on Friday the 7th as being something that must have been copied bodily from SVA's weird add-a-day-subtract-a-day timeline as opposed to simply worked out on a calendar starting from Harry's birthday... Occam's razor, baby!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2007-11-10 11:24 pm UTC (link)
b) there is no mention of any scheduled school-wide hobby, recreational or club time that might take up the week-end in a non-academic way, and
c) there is no mention of any particular break in school activity on the weekends (with the exception of periodic visits to Hogsmeade by the senior years).


Quidditch matches are explicitly noted as being on Saturdays, and on at least one occasion (at the beginning of the school year in Chamber of Secrets), Harry indicates he's looking forward to the weekend because the school week has been so unpleasant.

However, this does not necessarily indicate that all weekends are school-free.

I have concluded, however, that because the WB's calendar sets events explicitly occurring on Friday on September 7, and sets events explicitly occurring on a Saturday on November 9, they are highly likely to be copying the Lexicon's calendar instead of doing their own calculations. (In a calendar where September 7 is a Friday, November 9 is also a Friday, so this is an error.) There are several other cases where the Lexicon has made a dating error (things the Lexicon says happened on different days which happened on the same day in the book), and that error is duplicated on the WB's timeline.

I cross-checked the exact text used, though, and in most cases the Lexicon's text is a simple text compression or rearrangement of the exact text used in the novels, so, I see no reason the text constitutes a "unique expression" or much creativity, for that matter. In which case, WB can certainly use it.

In essence, they did math. Sometimes they did math wrong. They usually directly copied Rowling's text and put it next to their arithmetic results. The one thing they could conceivably claim is the exact layout they used, but WB didn't duplicate that, and essentially grabbed a few dates and spread them across several screens with little movie clips you could click on. I don't see anything I think they can claim copyright infringement on here.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


 
   
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