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Avocado ([info]white_serpent) wrote,
@ 2008-03-19 17:53:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Okay, I'm not really laughing so hard I can hardly breathe...
But give me time.

Seriously, the latest LJ outrage!!1!!11 is killing me.

We must protect future users from the horrors of advertising!

How dare they censor the interests! I'm outraged! [They put them back.] I'm still outraged! (Seeing as I removed all of my interests during the last LJ interest idiocy, my sole interest at this point is "not listing interests." I don't particularly care who shares it.)

OMG, SUP hired a prostitute to try to blackmail Brad. Or maybe to sweeten the deal. Or maybe there wasn't a prostitute at all, but, still! It's just like something they'd do.

Now, the interview in Russian: translation 1 translation 2 Is translation 1 overly inflammatory? Who cares? Time for more outrage at the sudden realization that, in either translation, SUP really doesn't care much about the user base! But, really, we're all incompetent after the fact mourners -- thanks for the link, [info]kill_the_spare.

Also (my personal favorite): SUP should have known that everyone would plug the interview into babelfish/google translations, get a bad translation, and get outraged about it! (Quite possibly true, but what's the solution? Sounds like this is a cry to "do things without ever saying anything about them lest they be misinterpreted," and isn't that the primary problem, here?)

It just wouldn't be a LJ protest without ataniell93 bringing up the colossal importance of her 300 RP journals, now would it?

I'm sure I will boycott LJ on Friday, just like I do almost every other day of the year. I don't really think that the interest filtering was a mistake, and I don't like ads (which, BTW, means I'm not going to InsaneJournal, either). I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but I have to say-- if you're really outraged, you're a lot more convincing if you pick up and leave and stay gone.

(Post a new comment)


[info]charmian
2008-03-20 01:51 am UTC (link)
Ahahaa, looks like after my LJ vacation, I'll have a lot of inneresting things to read. XD

Wait, is there really confirmation SUP hired a prostitute for Brad? But at that point, wasn't Brad not even in charge of LJ?

But seriously, people trust babelfish? I trust it for basic information things, but stuff like tone or whatever, I KNOW it's very iffy. (Sez moi as an amateur translator) Russian is VERY different from English (although the translations tend to come out more coherent than the Japanese or Chinese machine translation ones), so that's even more reason not to trust it.

LOL, oh her again. I recall her seeing her boast about finding the president of 6A and how she was doing the boycott even though it might be useless because it would "make her feel better."

Seriously, and now that they turned the interests back, what is there to protest about? Regardless of how badly they implemented the getting-rid-of-basic, that's over with already. They can't go back in time and implement it in an intelligent way.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 03:02 am UTC (link)
There is no confirmation of the prostitute thus far, and, yes, Brad was not in charge of LJ. Both comments on said alleged prostitute so far allegedly come from the same person.

But seriously, people trust babelfish?

Apparently. Its Italian is particularly awful. It can translate English into Italian decently, but is appalling at translating from Italian to English-- it can't reverse-translate 50% of the words in its own translations. I took a year of Italian in college; I remember almost none of it; I need to look up a lot of the words in the dictionary... and my Italian translations are still better than babelfish. :/

Seriously, and now that they turned the interests back, what is there to protest about?

See, the question I think people should be asking is, "If the interests were concealed deliberately, why would they have been concealed?" (The claim that they were blocked because they wanted to remove usernames as interests isn't really credible.) If the idea were, say, to make LJ look more appealing to advertisers while not deleting the accounts of people with "unacceptable" interests (the approach 6a tried), then a big protest by people who have those interests is more likely to have SUP say, "Screw you all; if we can't hide you, and you're going to scream anyway, we're deleting your accounts." If they really don't care much about these specific interests, perhaps they were just testing on big interests (so they could easily see if they dropped off the list) before using the functionality on more unacceptable (but presumably smaller) interests. It's how I'd test.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]charmian
2008-03-20 03:08 am UTC (link)
Huh, so then why is everyone taking it so seriously? It's just a rumor.

Wow, even Italian sucks? They're even part of the same broad linguistic family.

Yeah, but it's not like the unpopular interests are listed in a directory, and the situation where really forbidden interests can't be searched is still operative (I still don't know why people weren't more weirded out by the nonexplanation "we can't explain why you can't search for these interests" that was given). So in any case, it seems that LJ got their answer, some users will notice anything. XD

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 03:19 am UTC (link)
Italian is so bad as to be utterly useless.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-31 08:27 pm UTC (link)
On the topic of Italian, and seeing as your LJ holiday is over, observe the glories of this book review in Italian, and attempts to translate it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-20 03:05 am UTC (link)
I like Babelfish just for pure comedy value. Translate something, then translate it back. It's just bizarre.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ladybirdsleeps
2008-03-20 04:27 am UTC (link)
It's even difficult to discern tone when you have an accurate translation, since so much is cultural.

For example, I made a mistake in Korean class last week. I said (in Korean), "I'm sorry I didn't call you." Sounds neutral in English, right? It turned out I was being rude to my conversation partner. I should have said "I'm sorry I couldn't call you"; because I didn't make the customary polite excuse, I had inadvertently implied that I just didn't want to talk to her.

Translation to and from any language is going to have problems like that. I read enough Russian to translate the literal meaning of the interview for myself, tone is even more difficult. =/

That said, my problem with that interview isn't tone. Not outraged enough to leave LJ and not happy with any alternatives anyway, but cautious enough to set up mirrors because I don't have confidence in their business.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]charmian
2008-03-20 04:30 am UTC (link)
Yes. Tone is very, very tricky, especially in dialogue.

Eh, regardless of the attitude of Nosik et al, LJ's survival in the long run is not assured. At least in the English-language sector.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 05:04 am UTC (link)
That said, my problem with that interview isn't tone. Not outraged enough to leave LJ and not happy with any alternatives anyway, but cautious enough to set up mirrors because I don't have confidence in their business.

It's pretty clear they don't care about the userbase, yes, and neither did 6a.

I set up a mirror for my LJ content on my other JF account a few outrages back.

In all seriousness, I have considered moving my primary journal off of LJ, watching a bunch of RSS feeds, and using my LJ to comment on posts that interest me. If I do end up doing that, though, I'm probably most likely to turn our server back on, point my domains at it, and either directly run blogging software or set up a simple website. The thing is, I comment and read far more than I post anymore, so I'm not sure if it's worth that much trouble. (It was worth setting up a mirror and creating a backup, though.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ladybirdsleeps
2008-03-20 05:36 am UTC (link)
I just wish fandom would get over the idea that we need to find one single alternative (like a magical fan-run service), and just come up with better ways to network between sites.

I'm set up pretty well with an RSS reader, but I don't think many fans are doing that. If I left LJ, it would mean a drastic friends cut and a lot less interaction.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]waltraute
2008-03-20 01:56 am UTC (link)
Before I click: does she really mention the 300 journals?

After: bwahahahaha oh god

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 03:04 am UTC (link)
When does she not mention the 300 journals?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-20 02:27 am UTC (link)
LOL I'm so glad we're on the same page, because my flist is driving me nuts.

I already have my 'BOYCOTT THE BOYCOTT' post planned, however. >:D Something nice and inflammatory, so that people take the bait and post a comment and thus use that infinitesimal fraction of LJ's resources that supposedly matters so much to SUP.

-kill_the_spare (why does JF keep logging me out?)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 03:26 am UTC (link)
Like I said, I'm not entirely unsympathetic-- but it just seems like more of the same. "We're incredibly outraged-- did I mention how outraged we are?-- so we're going to NOT POST FOR A DAY!! Oh, we're totally staying."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kill_the_spare
2008-03-20 03:40 am UTC (link)
And now with the new apology up, everyone is going to run back into LJ's arms. "I love you, LJ. Never hurt me again!" And all will be fine until the next time, at which point everyone will react as if THIS IS TOTALLY UNEXPECTED, OMG.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]meril
2008-03-20 02:34 am UTC (link)
(I've the fluuuuu so apologizing for any coherency issues)

Apparently nobody's ever conveyed to them that "nobody rides for free" line. Or even the "no such thing as a free lunch" bit.

The Open Source movement is a bit of an exception, but then there's "it's free only if your time has no value." I'd also point to Retrosheet, but that arose out of the ashes of (IIRC) Project Scoresheet, which had a giant dustup re open vs. pay statistics.

(Reply to this)


[info]pyratejenni
2008-03-20 02:55 am UTC (link)
I'm posting on Friday. Not sure what, but I'm aiming for the same goals as kill_the_spare.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]kill_the_spare
2008-03-20 03:42 am UTC (link)
>:D Although I think the boycott may get called off, now that LJ has "apologized."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]pyratejenni
2008-03-20 09:38 am UTC (link)
Heh. If it is, there'll be wank about the "fair-weather people" rushing back to LJ's arms, yes....

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 06:39 pm UTC (link)
See, I'm not willing to go that far, because (for me) that would be analogous to trying to defend LJ against the fandom oppressors. And I don't need LJ needs my defense, so.

I'm not actively opposed to allowing new free accounts (considering mine is basic and always has been, and I don't like ads), and if people want all interests to show up on the popular interest list, I don't care. (I've opted out by not having them.)

I'm probably checking my friendslist on Friday, since I usually do. I probably won't comment, because I usually don't. I'm unlikely to make a special effort to post, though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

typos, joy.
[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 07:15 pm UTC (link)
sigh...

"And I don't think LJ needs my defense, so."

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]puipui
2008-03-20 09:22 pm UTC (link)
I'm unlikely to make a special effort to post, though.

So far, my participation will apparently consist of rescheduling my one planned post for [info]sjs_daily_pic to after 5pm my time, and then basically doing exactly what I've been doing most days lately, which is not commenting or posting or checking my flist and pretty much forgetting that most of LJ exists. Easy boycotts are the best boycotts!

I was also planning on changing my default icon, but now I'm kind of embarrassed, given the people who are also participating. I kind of don't want to be associated with many of them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]puipui
2008-03-20 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and also I'm starting a LostJournal, if I can get an invite code. They look keen, and their initials being "LJ" amuses me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ymfaery
2008-03-21 02:52 am UTC (link)
There's a LostJournal? :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]puipui
2008-03-21 05:03 pm UTC (link)
Yes! It is here, I found it through ashenmote. They call it a LoJo so that it doesn't get confused with LJ, which is adorable and makes it sound like you're journaling with some famous celebrity in a gossip magazine. And they still use invite codes! I had to get mine through their invite codes comm. :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ymfaery
2008-03-22 04:14 am UTC (link)
Can I get a code from you later, if/when you get some? :D No, I don't have a pathological need to reserve my name on any journal system I find, why do you ask? ;D

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]puipui
2008-03-23 06:33 am UTC (link)
Absolutely! It might take me a week or two to get any, though. But I will give one to you when I have one! :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]pyratejenni
2008-03-21 02:55 am UTC (link)
LJ doesn't need defending. Large swathes of fandom on it, however, need a reality check.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-21 04:45 am UTC (link)
While true, it will never happen.

I mean, come on. If some of these people (and many of them are the same people) were willing to say, "Oh, the poor pedophiles, they're just like us! We should work together! ♥" (and they were), you can't seriously expect anything to bring them back to reality.

Stewardess managed to really offend me with this comment.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-21 05:25 am UTC (link)
Hmm. I should clarify, I suppose, because on reread it occurs to me that it might appear that I'm trying to tar everyone striking with that brush.

Most people (say, [info]ashenmote) who are participating in the strike/boycott, I've got no disagreement with. (And, I'm guessing, neither do you.) I understand why they're doing it.

There's a contingent that I've got problems with (...yeah, just checked, and I'm still more offended by Stewardess' comment than anything Nossik said. Funny, that...) I understand why they're striking/boycotting LJ, too, and it's not the same reason.

The problem is that the small (but very vocal) minority I have problems with, I have serious problems with. This isn't the first time I've seen them in behavior that makes me want to scream, "Get out of my universe!" (forget "get off my side.") I suspect there's pretty strong overlap between this group and the group that you'd like to give a reality check. It's not going to work, because they're so far out that you can't bring them back.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]pyratejenni
2008-03-22 02:28 am UTC (link)
I posted.

You're right, on pretty much all counts. But hey, I can give the ones in desperate need of a reality check something else to froth over.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-20 03:00 am UTC (link)
I don't really think that the interest filtering was a mistake

I think it was a mistake, I just don't think it was an accident. And it doesn't really matter which one it was, I don't think, so long as they realized they screwed up and corrected it. Although they're probably screwing something else up right this second.

I'm still doing the content strike, though, but only because whatshisname the Russian guy said I'd be bullying him if I did. I love bullying extremely powerful business people on the internet in ways that they'll probably never actually notice except when it slightly annoys them! Whoo-hoo!

Also, OMG, did that bgmt person just compare the SUP thing to the holocaust and Cambodia? Seriously? WTF?!?

(Reply to this)

WTF? I was too logged in!
[info]puipui
2008-03-20 03:01 am UTC (link)
I don't really think that the interest filtering was a mistake

I think it was a mistake, I just don't think it was an accident. And it doesn't really matter which one it was, I don't think, so long as they realized they screwed up and corrected it. Although they're probably screwing something else up right this second.

I'm still doing the content strike, though, but only because whatshisname the Russian guy said I'd be bullying him if I did. I love bullying extremely powerful business people on the internet in ways that they'll probably never actually notice except when it slightly annoys them! Whoo-hoo!

Also, OMG, did that bgmt person just compare the SUP thing to the holocaust and Cambodia? Seriously? WTF?!?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: WTF? I was too logged in!
(Anonymous)
2008-03-20 03:07 am UTC (link)
It wouldn't be a fandom outrage without hyperbolic bullshit.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: WTF? I was too logged in!
[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 03:14 am UTC (link)
True.

Any particular reason you're using a proxy?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: WTF? I was too logged in!
[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 03:09 am UTC (link)
What I'm curious about is why they built the interest-hiding functionality in the first place. I'm sure they had reasons.

Also, OMG, did that bgmt person just compare the SUP thing to the holocaust and Cambodia? Seriously? WTF?!?

Isn't it fun? I can't imagine why Anton Nosik might think LJ users are dumb, can you?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: WTF? I was too logged in!
[info]charmian
2008-03-20 03:29 am UTC (link)
Some people wondered whether it might be for keyword advertising reasons? Have no idea how plausible that is. In any event, I kind of doubt they will ever explain why.

-_- Yet again? It seems we should make LJ outrage bingo. Let's see.
"Cat macro," "babelfish translation," "Godwin," "call for boycott"....

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: WTF? I was too logged in!
[info]meril
2008-03-20 04:07 am UTC (link)
I'm with Charmian; I thought it was for selling keywords for ads, or trying to draw in users without making the site look really creepy on first glance by outsiders.

And, yeah, reading the second translation...Nosik is unfortunately right there about the squeaky wheels in the English-language userbase. Like I said during Strikethrough, it's 80/20 in action!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: WTF? I was too logged in!
[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 04:20 am UTC (link)
You're probably right; having looked at the code changes, it specifically mentions ads, so...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: WTF? I was too logged in!
[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 03:41 am UTC (link)
I'm still doing the content strike, though, but only because whatshisname the Russian guy said I'd be bullying him if I did. I love bullying extremely powerful business people on the internet in ways that they'll probably never actually notice except when it slightly annoys them! Whoo-hoo!

I have to admit it; that's a pretty good reason. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ymfaery
2008-03-20 03:07 am UTC (link)
if you're really outraged, you're a lot more convincing if you pick up and leave and stay gone.

That's too radical a concept for many people, it seems.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 07:06 am UTC (link)
I've got nothing against people protesting, really. It's just that there has to be a plan if the protest doesn't work-- and I don't think most people have one, except "grumble, but don't leave."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ymfaery
2008-03-20 05:59 pm UTC (link)
I probably shouldn't talk, since I haven't actually LEFT LJ, but I did downgrade from paid to basic. So basically I'm a passively protesting freeloader? XD

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]onaga
2008-03-20 05:49 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I've seen a lot of posts about it on my flist. Most of these people have paid accounts. Um.

I also saw someone saying, basically, that if you use Adblock you don't count in the ad statistics because they don't load? So does this mean I can read my flist?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2008-03-20 07:07 am UTC (link)
I believe so, yes.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]tehrin
2008-03-20 09:01 am UTC (link)
Oh Ataniell. Of those 300 she counts, I wonder just how many are active players. I sometimes wonder if lj knows how many people have several accounts just for rping on lj. But I can't imagine how they couldn't!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]pyratejenni
2008-03-20 09:39 am UTC (link)
Of those 300 she counts, I wonder just how many are active players.

[info]biichan would probably know. Myself, I'm guessing between 2 and 4. Tops.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ashenmote
2008-03-20 12:50 pm UTC (link)
I imagine they are all active and she's playing a Sparta rpg all by herself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tehrin
2008-03-20 06:58 pm UTC (link)
This is MADNESS!
Madness? THIS IS ATANIELL!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

  
   
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